You Served Transcript – Podcast Episode #26

Announcer: Laptop radio. [music]

Announcer: Thanks for joining us for another edition of You Served, the military Podcast Radio with your host, C.J. Grisham. [music]

Troy Steward: And there we go.

C.J. Grisham: Hello everybody and welcome to the You Served radio show and podcast. I am C.J. and I am pulling up my own computer prompts. Anyway, I am one of your hosts, C.J. Grisham. I write several blogs, one of which is www.youserved.com. I also write on my main site, “A Soldier’s Perspective” which is www.soldiersperspective.us.

Troy: And I am your other co-host, Troy Steward. I write several mail blogs, one of which is at youserved.com, which is the mortgage center’s website. And then I write on my main site at www.bouhammer.com [audio problems for about 30 seconds]

Troy: Hello? Alright. I think I’m on. I am not sure if I am. Let me ask the chat room. The…well, I think I lost C.J. I am not sure where he is at. And I also can’t tell if I am being heard or not from anyone. OK. I guess I am being heard. OK. C.J., I don’t know if you want to dial in the regular line there. Let me see if I can bring him up. Sorry about this. You know blog talk radio is never without problems, technical problems. And with me and C.J. both trying to run this from different points of view and then you throw in a little BTR stuff it gets crazy.

Anyway, it looks like that…OK, he is on now. Alright, let me see if I can get him. C.J., are you there?

C.J.: I’m telling you what; we are going to have issues. My deep chest keeps pinging.

Troy: I hear you. We are going to have to — we are going to find a — I love BTR. They have been great but, man, either they don’t like us or the technology is faltering in the amount of, thousands of listeners that we have. I don’t know.

C.J.: I think actually this one might have been my fault because my update from Skype hadn’t completely gone through yet and I think that might have been it. It cut me off at the perfect time. You know, it couldn’t download any faster and it couldn’t download any slower. So, anyway, we are over here.

Troy: Well, I just got done introducing myself and my blog if that helps you out.

C.J.: Alright. Well, thanks Troy and thanks to everyone else for taking the time to listen to us. Tonight we’ve got another great show full of patriotic people. Our first guest is a civilian nurse. We are not going to give her name, correct?

Troy: Well, no. Yeah, we may. When she comes on, we’ll see. But…

C.J.: We’ll see how she wants to be introduced. But she works in a military hospital and cares deeply for many of our wounded troops. Then we are also going to bring back Eve Chase to close the loop on last week’s, what we like to call radio abortion. That’s what I like to call it — the aborted show from last week. Then during the eight o’clock hour we are going to be talking with Aron Gaudet. He is the director, editor, and director of photography of the film, “The Way We Get By.” You can check out that trailer at www.thewaywegetbymovie.com.

Troy: Yep. And as we do every week, we also have Sergeant First Class Angela McKinzie as our Tribute to Freedom Soldier this week. We always try to have a Tribute to Freedom Soldier on. Unfortunately, like you say, because of BTR crap that went on last week, we weren’t able to get her on. But she has graciously been patient. Being in the military, she probably knows how things happen and is going to try it again. Also, while we have the mike, as we do every Thursday night, I want to bring everyone’s attention to the new project that both C.J. and I have worked very hard to get running, pretty much, just a hair over 24 hours. Today we unveiled it. It’s a new blog called Military Pundits. You can get to it at militarypundits.com.

With everything going in the world and in the country today, in the world of politics we both realize that there were more and more political really non-military blog posts that were seeping into our blogs. C.J. and I both were very opinionated and had some things we wanted talk about.

[C.J. clears throat loudly]

Troy: Oh, that was nice C.J. You might want to mute before that next time.

C.J.: Oh, sorry. I thought I did.

Troy: No, but… [laughter]

Troy: There we go. Anyway, so as we realize that more and more things are becoming political in our blog we wanted to try and get both our blogs focused back on their original intent. So we created this new one to keep the integrity of our blogs going and it is called militarypundits.com. With that C.J., I guess I’ll let you go into it more and you can talk about it a little bit more.

C.J.: Oh, yeah, it’s more than just an outlet for Troy and me to voice our views and opinions on political matters. We are opening it up to any and all military or past military members who also just want a place to vent, to unload, to share, whatever they want to do as it relates to political matters. We’ve put together a group of mil bloggers who represent both sides of the aisle, who belong to very different political parties, but most importantly, who have raised their hands and sworn to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Troy: And if you are a military blogger who would like a forum to share your political opinions, left or right, send me an email with your blog url and why you would like to join in. You can send it too admin at militarypundits.com. That will go to both C.J. and I. Military Pundits is designed to be an all inclusive forum. Did you just say this? No, you didn’t say it. Reserved for all conservatives or liberals and it spearheads the forthcoming fairness doctrine, we present this forum as a bipartisan place to hang your hat and let your rants fly.

If you don’t want to be a regular contributor but would like to write or share something once, or every once in a while and you have served in the military or are serving right now, again you can send an email to us at admin@militarypundits.com or just contact C.J. or I individually and we will be glad to put that up as a guest post. We will help you with that if you are so inclined.

C.J.: And with that we are going to jump into stuff. But before we do, we need to clear the air on a few things.

Announcer: The music commentary you were listening to from the Boneheads were based on personal experiences from Iraq, Afghanistan and other exotic tropical paradises. The opinions expressed on the You Served radio show are solely those of the host and contributors and not those of any agency of the United States government, expressly including to but not limited to the Department of Defense or any branch of the military. Neither do the idiotic statements of these rambling buffoons reflect the views of You Served.com or the VA Mortgage Center. If they knew what was good for them they would find real talent as quickly as possible. The site is not designed, authorized, sanctioned or affiliated by or with any agency of the United States Government expressly including but not limited to the Department of Defense or any branch of the military. Listeners accept and agree to this disclaimer and the use of any information accessed from this podcast. These guys serve to protect your freedom. If you don’t like what they have to say, exercise it and leave.

C.J.: Alright. We’ve got a number of things we are going to talk about today. In our host spot we are going to talk about this Senator Fritz Hollings thing. He wrote a piece in the “Huffington Post” called “Why Are We In Afghanistan?” You are going to be completely amazed at some of the things that he said. Now, Troy just got home. I realize that. He did one of the things that I normally do which is run through the door and log on to the computer. So what I want to talk about first is I want to give Troy, being the Afghanistan veteran on the show the opportunity to read through that act quickly, kind of peruse it. I’d like to skip, if you don’t mind, to the ‘nation of cowards’ thing, Troy. And I’ll kind of go off on that for a moment.

Troy: All right, go ahead.

C.J.: And then you can catch up on that Fritz Hollings piece because that’s pretty amazing. For those of you, if you listen to the news, if you watch the news, this doesn’t necessarily have much to do with military. However, Eric Holder, who’s the Attorney General, today — or yesterday I guess it was — described the United States as “a nation of cowards”. He called us a nation of cowards. This wasn’t a speech to Justice Department employees about black history month. Now, there’s a reason I’m bringing this up. I’ve talked about this on my blog, ‘A Soldier’s Perspective’, and I wrote a piece not too long ago called “The Army’s Unequal Opportunity Program”. The reason behind that is, according to the army papers, the army manuals that discuss equal opportunity, the very disturbing thing that you’ll find by reading through it. One of those is that every single example of people violating the Army’s Equal Opportunity Program, every single one without fail has been an example of a majority, i.e. the “white person”, doing something against the “minority” which would be a person of Hispanic origin, of black origin, anything other than white or Caucasian I guess you could call it.

So there is also stuff that says in there that minorities cannot be racist. This is all part of the program. Well, we had a guy down in Florida, down here at the DEOMI which is the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute or something like that, basically the clearing house for the Defense Department’s Equal Opportunity Program. There was a gentleman down there, and I’m not going to give his name because I don’t know if – well he was out there publicly. His name is Arthur Mills. I think we had him on the show a few weeks ago, right Troy?

Troy: Yeah, we did. Yep, we sure did.

C.J.: He went down to EO Symposium that they had down in Florida to give a speech. He was actually invited to give a speech on this whole… can you hear me?

Troy: Yeah, I can hear you.

C.J.: OK, I thought I muted it. He was down there in Florida to give a speech on his whole army unequal opportunity paper that he wrote. It’s actually a book as well. You can go to Amazon, type in the Army’s unequal opportunity program, and it’s in there. You will not believe what happened when he got down there. First of all, a lot of people prior to his speech came up to him and were like, “Oh, you’re the guy, didn’t you put out the paper on the Army’s unequal opportunity program.” And everyone was looking forward to listening to him speak. One of these individuals was a Lieutenant Colonel Sanders. Yes I’m going to say his name, Sanders. Colonel Sanders is one of the lead guys at the DEOMI, one of the highest ranking gentlemen at DEOMI and happens to be what someone classified as a minority. He is black. Anyone that knows me knows that I could care less about race. I grew up in a Navy environment where I grew with blacks, Asians, Phillipinos, whites, you name it — northerners, southerners.

So this Colonel goes up to him and pretty much starts laying into this guy for his paper. “I’ve read your paper and you’re off-base and you do not speak for the Army. You do not speak for anybody.” And he’s like, “Whoa, I didn’t say I do speak for anybody.”

One of the things that I need to put out here first, at the very beginning of this Symposium before everybody started talking as part of the opener, the person there that was opening the Symposium made a blanket statement. That statement was, “Nobody here speaks for any organization or military anything. They speak on behalf of themselves. These are their opinions. This way we don’t have a bunch of people saying these disclaimers prior to their briefings, their speeches, talks, whatever.”

Anyway, so the Colonel starts chewing into this guy and he says, “When you get out there you will give that disclaimer. You will say that you don’t speak on behalf of anyone”, blah, blah, blah. When he got up there, of course he didn’t. He didn’t give the disclaimer because he doesn’t have to. There was already a blanket disclaimer given. He made sure that everybody knew this was his experience.

Well, this Lieutenant Colonel gets up and makes a complete ass out of himself, walks from where he’s sitting up to the podium where Mr. Mills is giving his speech and begins to just dig into this guy in front of everybody. He was telling him that, “I’m in DEOMI and we don’t teach this and we don’t train that.” Mr. Mills was explaining to him that, “Oh yeah, then why on page 17 of this manual does it say that…” “I don’t know what you’re talking about. I want to see everything.”

Eventually he was told that… you know that Mr. Mills got his wits about him and goes, “Excuse me, this is my turn to talk.” But before he did that, this Lieutenant Colonel unrolled a piece of paper he had in his hand. That paper happened to be the equal opportunity complaint filed by Mr. Mills at his unit, and began to read from it in a public forum, this guy’s EO complaint. Now EO complaints are supposed to be privately held. They’re protected papers. They are not public knowledge. This Lieutenant Colonel decided to take himself into a realm he probably should not have.

With that in mind, is where I get a little upset. You’re probably trying to figure out, how did he start off talking about Eric Holder? Eric Holder is also what some would classify as a “minority”. He is also what some would describe as a black person. Alright? So in this speech the Justice Department marking Black History Month, and again I’ll pose the rhetorical question, when is white history month, when is brown history month, yellow history month, and all those other history months that Barack Obama’s pastor was talking about at his inauguration?

Holder said that the workplace is largely integrated, but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives. He said, “Though this nation has probably thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards”, said Holder, the nation’s first black Attorney General. I want to bring something to your attention – Troy you can jump in here anytime, but I’m on a roll here.

Troy: Yeah. You know we got our first guest dialed in, though.

C.J.: Oh, we do?

Troy: Yeah, she’s…Oh. Yeah, she was.

C.J.: Yeah, it’s just you and me.

Troy: OK.

C.J.: I’ll keep my switchboard on so I can see.

Troy: She’s back now.

C.J.: All right. Let me finish this then.

Troy: OK.

C.J.: Let me tell you why Mr. Holder is himself a coward. Number one, he’s an elected official. Number two, he is the first black elected official to serve as an Attorney General. We now have the first black president. We had the first female black Secretary of State. We had the first black male Secretary of State. We’ve got black billionaires. We’ve got black CEOs. We’ve got black four-star generals. The bottom line here, ladies and gentlemen, is that if this country were such a nation of cowards, if this country were such a racist country, why in the hell are all these high ranking positions in our government, that are elected positions, although, granted, like Attorney General is selected by an elected official, why do we have – oh I forgot Michael Steele, the first black Republican National Committee leader, convention leader.

I’m a little fed up with it. Personally, if you ask me, I think it’s time for the Army’s Equal Opportunity Program to simply go away. It’s time for Black History Month to simply go away. We no longer need it. And if we don’t have white history, and yellow history, and purple history, and brown history, then we don’t need Black History. This country is fully integrated. We are not a bunch of cowards. Racism, although still present, is not what it used to be. And with that Troy I’ll [indecipherable 20:30] . [laughter]

Troy: All right. We’ll get on the other topic later because I think we’re going to have some time at the end. C.J., does that sound good?

C.J.: Sure, yeah.

Troy: OK, so coming on first, and our first guest you are now unmuted. I’m going to ask you, what’s the best – how would you like me to refer to you as?

Claire: Well, how about just Claire?

Troy: Alright, good, Claire. That’s what I was going to call you but I wasn’t sure. So, we have Claire tonight. Claire, welcome to the ‘You Serve’ radio show.

Claire: Thank you.

Troy: And Claire is a civilian nurse who works in military hospitals treating all kinds of injured, sick, wounded, anyone that would need to be in the hospital that is probably in the military. Is that pretty accurate?

Claire: Yeah.

Troy: Alright, so the reason we have Claire on tonight is, well, she sees things from definitely a different point of view. C.J. and I have a lot of guests on and we’re of course in the military and we have a lot of guests that are military. And we have had friends and people who have been wounded, and we’ve had friends that have been wounded. But I wanted to kind of talk to Claire tonight to kind of get an idea of how it looks different from your spectrum and what do you see. So, I know that these are kind of loaded questions, but as a civilian nurse, treating military, I’m assuming that you have worked at civilian hospitals treating civilian patients?

Claire: Yeah.

Troy: OK, so I guess one of the first questions then would be, is there any difference? Do you notice a difference besides uniforms coming in and out or maybe the types of injuries, just in the patients themselves and the demeanor that is there in the recovery between what you see on the military side and the civilian side?

Claire: I think for me, I’ve been taking care of the wounded troops since about 2004, 2005. So, prior to that I worked inner city trauma. I flew Medivac, so I really got to see the darker side of things. And I think my military counterparts, my military co-workers are very sheltered from some of the things that are daily occurrence to me when I work inner city trauma. I mean, it was nothing to be called numerous names and be cussed out and have my life threatened and be hit and be kicked and spit on. And all that kind of stuff was a pretty frequent occurrence when I worked inner city. The difference with the military is I think I can count on two fingers the number of times where my military patient or their family has treated me inappropriately or just disrespectfully. I mean, when I first started working in a military hospital, everybody learned my background and they said, “Wow, you worked inner city. You worked at these major trauma centers. How come you wanted to come here?”

And I said, “Well, my patients are respectful, polite, and they genuinely appreciate the care that they get.” So that’s kind of a long answer to a short question.”

[laughs]

Troy: Well, that’s good. So, I mean, you worked inner city and you worked air Medivac in an inner city and in an emergency room. Is that right?

Claire: Yes.

Troy: OK. They’re different clientele without a doubt, right?

Claire: Yeah, my running joke was, why I left inner city was because I was beginning to think my name was witch. Only, add a “b” to the beginning of that. [laughter]

Troy: Yeah, I can imagine. So besides the lack of respect or showing of respect between the two types of groups, you’ve mentioned the military counterparts are sheltered. Working on the inner city civilian side, you probably a lot of the same types of wounds or injuries that the medics on the front lines probably see, right — gunshots and things like that and stuff?

Claire: You know, not really. I mean I’ve spent my entire career working trauma and when I started at the military hospitals and started taking care of the wounded — how do I explain? I think the kind of wounds that I see, the magnitude, the velocity — I mean you’re talking about blast injuries. You’re talking about high velocity weaponry and thank God, you know, we don’t have IEDs and RPGs in the inner city. So the wounds are very different, and the care of the patient is different because you have a whole spectrum of things to do. It’s not only the physical wounds, but the psychological wounds. And, you know the guy that wants to be all better right now so he can get back to his unit.

Troy: Right, yeah. I’m sorry, go ahead.

Claire: And you don’t see that with the inner city patients.

Troy: Now, in the military hospital, do you tend to stay with your patients for the full life cycle with patients versus the civilian where once they’re out of ER or something they’re handed off and someone else takes care of them?

Claire: The different jobs that I have done in the military hospital, to a certain extent they’re with us for so long that you get close to them. You get close to their families, and there’s kind of a bond that forms that I rarely had with my civilian patients on the civilian side.

Troy: OK. I could see that. So, with what you’re seeing you carry — let me ask this. How do you deal with what you see and hear and experience every single day in the military hospital? I guess what is your outlet? And I say that as kind of a loaded question.

Claire: Troy, you know the answer to that one. We’ve had some phone conversations. [laughs]

Troy: Yup. Yeah, for those listening we’re talking to Claire, she’s a military nurse working with our nation as we go to war and she, and I’ve known Claire for a fairly long time. And I opened up an invite to her when I first met her, and said, “Anytime you need to chat, anytime you want to talk give me a call.” And she has not been shy on tapping into that when she needed to, that’s for sure. But besides just calling me, which is not always that often, I mean, is there a way to detach yourself? Is there a way for you to just step away when you walk out or do you just literally carry those patients home with you every single night and cannot let go?

Claire: There is. You know, I can remember being labeled the ice princess when I worked on the civilian side because I had such a cynical, cold hearted demeanor to me that my co-workers literally nicknamed me the ice princess. And I don’t know what happened between the time I left civilian and started working with the military population. I don’t know. Maybe I had a falling out. How do I deal with it? I mean, I run, exercise. I have certain people that I do talk to that I sit and regurgitate things to. Sometimes I do a lot of crying. And I have a lot of faith in God, and I truly believe that God put me here to take care of these people and that he will give me the strength and encouragement to bring people into my life to give me the encouragement that I need to make it through this.

Troy: OK, alright. Well that’s definitely, you know, you’re a faithful person. And that’s definitely a place to lean to when you have to. Now, when you exercise you do all that. And I can imagine there’s got to be some days, though, you see things frustrating, not only with the patients, but with the administration and the politics and all that stuff that you got into some day? Do you just question yourself, why am I doing this? Why are we here? Am I making any kind of difference? Have you ever had any of those kinds of days?

Claire: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. One of my biggest frustrations is that people always talk about the wounded and their families and what can I do for them, but they rarely think about the staff that cares for these patients. I mean, we see these folks day in and day out, and it’s not like I’m going to get better and I’m going to leave this place in a year or six months or whatever. I mean, this is my job. This is what I’ve chosen to do. We don’t get the recognition or the thanks that I would like to see us get. You know, people always say, “Well you work with the wounded, is there anything I can do for them?” Not that it shouldn’t be that way but every once in a while I think I would like to have somebody say, well, instead of “When we put together this dinner for the wounded and their families, we’re also going to do one for the staff.” Or, “Here are some cookies just because we want to say thanks.”

That rarely, rarely happens. Even with the administration, sometimes they just…we can have death, after death, after death, which several months ago, that was exactly where we were, and the staff was just fried.

It was hard. We felt like we serve too, but nobody gives us the recognition or the thanks.

Troy: Right. Well I am glad that I made the invite, and I really meant it from my heart. As you know, we have talked a lot of times. Just for people listening, I will tell you. When I first met Claire and we talked for a while, I looked her in the eye and I said, “I can’t imagine how you do what you do. I can’t imagine what you carry on your shoulders all of the time. If you ever need someone to talk to, just give me a call.” Not to float my own boat, but I am glad that I did that. I can see. I can imagine what you guys deal with all the time. It is not always like an episode of ‘Scrubs’, I am sure.

Claire: It is far from it!

Troy: We had on a couple weeks ago; maybe last week or a couple of weeks ago. These shows run together, seems like, when we only do one a week. We had Elaine Miller on, who I have chatted with you about before, who is down in Dampsey. One of the questions I asked her, and I can ask you the same thing, is she was around when the whole famed Walter Reed incident happened. We talked to her about the differences she saw in how much more attention was paid and much more thoroughness and things like that were done.

From your point of view, what did you see, before, during, and after that? What were major accomplishments you saw, or was there anything you have seen that you think they have just not gotten the message on?

Claire: The thing that strikes me about that is I can remember back in 2003 getting a phone call and saying the folks coming in from overseas don’t have anything to wear. Can you help us? I made a couple of phone calls and got some folks involved, and just went and bought sweats and that kind of stuff and tried to put together little kits for the people, the walking wounded, so to speak, coming in that did not have clothing or anything.

Just going from not having anything to them really making an effort to meeting the flight line and making sure that from step one until they went home that there is somebody with them that is kind of showing attention and listening to what they need and the families.

Troy: Is that the case managers? Is that what they do? Is that all developed to do that or are there other types of people that step in and really have the one on one hand holding through the whole process?

Claire: It is a team effort. It is the chaplains that meet the flight line. It is the case managers that are assigned once they come on board. It is the nursing assistant who takes an effort to spend a minute or two to talk to the patients, and the physicians who… We all work together to try and figure out what that patient and what their family needs. Or you pick up on something that isn’t quite right with the family or the patient and you go to the attending physician, or a chaplain, or a case manager, or a psychologist that you know can pick up where you left off.

I think the pieces are slowly getting put into place. Where there significant issues at Walter Reed? Sure. But there are significant issues at any hospital if they were to get the kind of scrutiny that Walter Reed received.

It’s not that things didn’t need to be changed. They clear and obviously did. But each institution has its problems and some deal with them better than others.

Troy: And some get more media attention than others.

Claire: Correct. Yeah.

Troy: [laughs]. Alright. So we have definitely seen an increase in that. Have you ever seen or had an experience with people trying to take advantage of the service members and their families while they are there, while they are in vulnerable moments? And if so, how do you guys deal with that, from someone trying to sell insurance to them to someone stealing from them, or anything like that? Of course that is the most reprehensible think you could think of, but I know it does happen.

Claire: Yeah. We are extremely protective of the wounded and their families. I can think of more than a couple instances where the patients and their families were taken advantage of and things were taken and stolen. Not that I can get into any of that, but it turns your stomach. When we find out about it, if there are things that can be done, automatically they are done. In a couple of circumstances it kind of fell on the patient and their family to stand up for themselves and say, “No we don’t want this attention.” Then we supported that and backed that and said, “OK. You folks back off.”

But once they are kind of involved, unless they say, “We need help”, it is kind of hard to…” There is the old saying, “You can only take advantage of somebody who is willing to allow you to do it.” If they go in knowing or not knowing, but then they realize later, “Hey. This isn’t what I want”, but then they decide to allow that, it is kind of hard to stop that.

Troy: Right. Right.

C.J.: Hey Claire. It is CJ. Can you hear me?

Claire: Yeah.

C.J.: Oh, OK. I don’t know what is wrong with my microphone. Normally when it’s flashing like that it means I am on mute, but apparently I am not. I have just a couple questions for you. I want to piggy back off of what you said. I used to go to Walter Reed every Friday night; well, about once or twice a month on Friday nights. I remember that whole thing broke.

Yeah, you are always going to have issues. It is not just the hospital. When you go into the hospital portion that is the cleanest place in the world. I don’t think people understood the place we are talking about is the clearance rooms.

But the caregivers, you guys, the kind of support that you give is just outstanding. So I just wanted to say thank you for taking care of my brothers and sisters out there.

I wanted to ask you other than where you work currently with our wounded warriors, have you worked at normal civilian hospitals as well, non-VA hospitals?

Claire: Oh yeah. That was my entire career up until I took my position at a military hospital. I spent more years that I am going to admit to, C.J., working in civilian trauma centers.

C.J.: Troy is admonishing me, because apparently he asked you that question, but that was one of those moments where I was watching purple cows prance around on my ceiling or something.

Claire: [laughs]

C.J.: So with that question…and he may have asked you this one too. And if he did, just say, “Next.” Is there a difference in your mind, or maybe from the caregiver’s standpoint, in treating those other individuals and treating our wounded warriors? And I don’t mean to say it in the sense that anyone is…OK. Never mind. Troy just gave me the ‘next’.

Claire: I will answer that one. It is much easier, to be honest, to take care of the kid that got blown up in Afghanistan that it is to take care of the guy that…and we get this excuse all the time. If I had a dime for every time I heard this excuse, I would be a rich woman. From the guy that was just standing on the street corner minding his own business, and the dude just came up and shot him for no reason.

C.J.: That is what happens all over the place.

Claire: Correct. So yes. It is much easier to take care of the soldiers, marines, airmen, and the sailors than it is your…

C.J.: Just say it. The soldiers are more manly men.

Claire: [laughs] Well, it’s a whole lot easier to take care of somebody that serves your country, than it is to somebody that’s calling you a witch.

C.J.: Oh, OK. I got you.

Claire: And it’s F bomb witch at that, you know?

C.J.: I know you used to work in the ERs from what I understand, from what I listened as I was listening intently earlier. Every time I go into the ER and I listen to these guys I almost feel bad; because as a soldier with real insurance, I generally get seen a lot quicker than other people. I don’t plan it that way. I don’t go to the ER unless I have to. But, just the way that those people behind the counters are treated in a civilian hospital. People who almost, and in some cases literally, hold their lives in their hands.

I love that it’s a very symbiotic relationship between our wounded warriors and the care givers that they’ve got at Brooks and at all of them — all of the military hospitals that are taking care of these guys and gals.

So, I see what you’re talking about, and I’m glad that you were able to find some respite from that sort of environment.

Claire: Yeah. Some days I still… There are occasions where I sit here and go: “You know what? I really want to be the ice princess again.” [laughs] There’s just too much… I think I have too much heart some days. Some of these guys I just want to take home with me and say, “OK, it will be all better.” And unfortunately it’s just not going to be that way. I can’t say, with the exception of maybe one or two in all the years I worked inner city, I can’t say there was ever anybody I wanted to take home with me and say: “I’ll fix you up.”

C.J.: There are a lot of people who really want to help either by sending stuff, or even just volunteering in some of these hospitals. I am sure there are some people listening because it comes up every time. What can they do, or what do the hospitals here need help with from just people who want to help? Just everyday Americans, patriots – things like that; how can they help?

Claire: Either to be… to answer that question in a selfish way, if you want to help, think of the caregivers. Do something helpful for the caregivers, because we are tired. How long have we been taking care of these patients? Since we went into Afghanistan in what, in 2001? We do get tired and I saw that they’re going to be sending another 8, 000 Marines and how many thousands of soldiers into Afghanistan?

C.J.: 17, 000 total.

Claire: Yeah, between March and April and all that. And so, we have been…. We have seen a decline in the influx of wounded. And it’s my fear that that is going to change very soon, in the next six months as the weather gets warmer over there, and all that kind of thing. So, if you can give a little care to the caregiver, that would help us to regenerate our batteries.

C.J.: OK. Thanks.

Troy: Yeah that’s a… You bring…

Claire: I’m being very selfish.

Troy: That’s OK. That’s OK. You bring up a good point. Yes, the 17,000 just got announced. That’s part of the 30,000 surge. There’s more that are coming that I know that are out there. Again, I can’t say who they are because DOD has not announced it. Just to put anyone who is listening, to put it into perspective — I know I preach on my blog about how bad it’s going to be. But, last year by the end of February we had lost 22 coalition members in Afghanistan.

This year, we are a month and a half into the year, we are not even done with February, and we have lost 19. Actually, last week it was 19. It’s already more than that because we lost a couple in the last few days. 19 US forces – that’s not even counting coalition.

And David McKiernan, General McKiernan said today that this is going to be — and Admiral Mullen said two days ago. Both of them said the same thing: “The worst year we have ever seen.”

When you throw that many people on the battlefield, you throw enough bullets into the air, and enough IEDs on the ground people are just going to get hit. Claire, I don’t think it’s selfish at all, because I think all of the caregivers are about to get pushed and taxed to the limit that none of you probably think you can; probably beyond what you guys think you are able to.

C.J.: One more thing Troy, if I can add this. Congress is going through great strains to ensure that soldiers get a great deal of reset time between their tours. What I don’t think Congress understands is that these caregivers don’t get any reset time. They are in the battle every single day, while our soldiers go in and out of it.

Troy: Yeah. Yeah. Claire, I am glad C.J. asked you about what people can do, because a lot of people volunteer at Fisher house or the donate some money or whatever, and that is good. But a lot of people do things for us when we are in uniform. I know it has happened to C.J. He has written about. It has happened to me a lot of times. They will see me in uniform and someone will pay for my lunch or pay for whatever.

Hopefully people listening to this show will think of that when they see someone near a military hospital that is maybe in medical garb and a medical uniform. Maybe they will do it for them, because you guys more than deserve it.

I know how it makes me feel. I am sure I know how it makes C.J. feel. To pay for a $5 or $10 lunch just really goes a long way. Hopefully people can do that. It’s not anything else they can do. I don’t know what else they can do to support you guys outside of sending you guys stuff, but you bring up a good point. And don’t feel bad in asking at all.

C.J.: Hey Claire, I am going to say this before Troy does. When I am down there for the Millblock Conference, lunch is on me.

Claire: [laughs] OK.

Troy: That is OK! Lunch can be on you. Christine and I have been invited to her house and she knows drinks are on me.

Claire: [laughs]

C.J.: OK. I will one up your drinks with a dinner!

Troy: OK. You got me now.

Claire: Do I get to pick the restaurant?

Troy: Yes, you sure do!

Claire: What? I am sorry. I didn’t hear C.J.

C.J.: Only if it is Taco Bell.

Claire: I was going to say, I am not into McDonald’s dear!

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: You get to pick the spot. And because the three of us are talking, he has to invite me too. We hope to see you Claire. As you know, we are going to be down in your neck of the woods around that time.

Claire: I didn’t realize you were coming to Texas.

Troy: Oh. My bad. I am not sure when I will be in Texas. You threw me for a loop there!

Claire: [laughs]

Troy: OK. Well with that, next time we are in Texas I guess we will see each other. Claire, is there anything you would like to say to wrap up or summarize for our listeners before we let you go?

Claire: I don’t want to get started on a big tangent, but I think that people need to realize that more than just the physical wounds that these soldiers, marines, and all the troops that are returning home with, the ones that are physically wounded can be emotionally and psychologically wounded. I wish there was as much support for those coming home with PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, as there is for those coming home with physical injuries. PTSD can be just as debilitating, if not more so, than a physical injury. I have written about that several times on the Sandbox about trying to get the awareness up and out there that PTSD is an incredibly debilitating condition.

I wish that the awareness was more than what it is, because the suicide rate is astronomical, and people do not realize that.

Troy: You know what? That is a very good point. We talk about that a lot, but you just kind of outed yourself more than I did. Nice reference to the Sandbox. We talk about that a lot — C.J. has, about the Roman General who writes a lot about that on his site ‘Soldier’s Perspective’.

C.J.: I used to. Oh, never mind.

Troy: Or used to. So with all that Claire, we are really appreciative that you were on tonight. We have a mutual friend that is about to come on right behind you, so feel free to stay on and listen. She says you are even a great cook too, so she is saying we should have lunch at your house.

Claire: [laughs]

C.J.: Oh, well if lunch is at her house, it is definitely on me.

Claire: Yeah, OK. I hope you like peanut butter and jelly, C.J.

C.J.: Oh, I love it.

Troy: She could use the nasty peanut butter; the salmonella peanut butter.

Claire: Exactly! [laughs]

C.J.: I could use some salmonella poisoning. It would probably help me lose little weight.

Claire: [laughter] I would be off duty, so I wouldn’t be working then.

C.J.: [laughter] You’d just sit there and watch me twitching?

Claire: No, I’d push you out the door. I call 911 real well. Thanks for inviting me on and thanks for the time listening to me kind of foam at the mouth about things.

Troy: Hey, no problem. We love to have you on. You are welcome back anytime. I think I have it, but be sure and email me your address again, because we’re going to send you one of our ‘You Serve’ podcast t-shirts that we send to all of our guests. We want to make sure you get one. With that, you can stay on the phone if you want to listen or if you want to listen to Sheryl, I’m just going to put you on mute as we get ready to move on to the next guest. Again Claire, thank you so much.

Claire: OK, goodnight.

Troy: Goodnight. All right, C.J.

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: Oh, man. We’re about ready to get on to our next, we’re going to talk to Eve next and finish up from our discussion last week. We’ve got to, kind of, re-cock ourselves and rethink about it and pick up where we left off. If anyone that reads the ‘You Serve’ blog, they are starting to post now the transcript from the show. Last week’s is the first one they really did it on. It’s pretty funny. It goes all the way up to Eve talking and halfway through her sentence it says, “End”. And that’s the end of it.

C.J.: Yeah, it just stops. That’s great.

Troy: So with that, hello Eve. How are you doing?

Eve: Hi, how are you guys?

Troy: Good, good.

C.J.: Good, welcome back.

Eve: Thank you. Hopefully this one doesn’t feel like last week where I’m talking by myself on and on and on.

Troy: Well that’s OK, you had people listening while were both disconnected.

Eve: [laughter]

Troy: Of course now you’re just following Claire who we know is a good cook and C.J.’s going to buy for her. So you’ve got to milk C.J. to get a dinner out of him too.

Eve: Oh, definitely.

Troy: Last week, near the end of our interview with you, we were chatting about — if I remember correctly and please correct my memory because it’s kind of going. I had some of those same facts that we were talking about a little bit ago with Claire. We were talking about the effort and the things you were doing with women’s veterans groups. And we were talking about what you had found in some of your studies and research and where you were going with that. Do you want to pick up from where you were? Do you remember what…

Eve: I don’t exactly remember but I definitely – I think I was talking a little bit about some of the research I was doing on the other women veterans’ organizations that are out there. There are a couple out there that deal primarily with military sexual trauma and post-traumatic stress disorder among women veterans. Those groups are really necessary. They’re very vital and important to taking care of other women and for girls who’ve had those experiences or fellow soldiers and service members who’ve had those experiences. They need that outlet and that resource.

But I think our group is going to steer a little bit away from that. We don’t want to be so much a support organization to specific issues, as we want to be a support organization for each other and kind of a professional networking type group.

Troy: So it’s more of a MySpace or a Facebook but just for female veterans.

Eve: Sort of, yeah.

Troy: It’s just for you guys to lean on each other.

Eve: Interestingly, we started it on Facebook. We’ve gotten, I think we’re up to 270 members right now, of women who are interested from all different conflicts and all different walks of life. We’re working to develop it into a permanent organization. We have a retreat planned for this year that’s being sponsored by Outward Bound. We’re working on the details of that. Hopefully we’ll be able to take 20 of the women veterans within the group with us and to go and bond and get to know each other and build lifelong friendships. That’s really what I want to focus on. I also want to do maybe some increase of awareness of what it’s like to be a female veteran or a woman in the military today. Just try to accurately and positively portray women veterans as proud, strong, independent, confidant women, because that’s what we are.

Troy: Right, right. There’s definitely – having served as long as I have, and I’m sure you know too — there’s a lot of stereotypes or misconceptions about women in the military out there. So would you say that part of the goal is to help knock those stereotypes down?

Eve: Definitely yes. Part of the problem is that we — a lot of women come into military service straight out of high school. And we come from all different types of families and different backgrounds. And we come into the military and we’re supposed to act like adults. I think one of the main points of the group that I envision is to have women mentoring younger women as well. I know that when I was deploying, I pulled the female soldiers that I had in our unit aside and gave them a separate brief, an impromptu separate brief about what to expect when we deploy. It’s stuff like that. So it’s to try to help develop these younger female soldiers into building good foundations, good reputations and really emphasizing the fact that they represent all of us in everything that they do and try to develop their leadership and stuff like that. Yeah, we want to definitely work on our image.

We also don’t want to just be viewed as victims of military sexual trauma or PTSD. I think the media — I’ve been getting a lot of media requests. Everybody wants to talk to somebody who – you know, they want to capitalize on the people who’ve had these traumatic events. I worry that that’s going to give us a bad view.

There’s a statistic out there that says that one in three women has endured military sexual trauma in the military. I think that that might be a little bit exaggerated. But I also believe that the military statistics, like the army statistics specifically, are severely underrated. There’s got to be a medium in there somewhere that… Both of them are one extreme or the other.

Troy: It’s good to be mentioned. I wonder what that stat is compared against just the regular civilian populace or university students or some other type of collective people of when you mention the one in three. Is it really a lot higher or a lot worse. Kind of like the recent suicide stats that they’ve talked about, suicide in the army versus suicide in the general public.

Eve: Right.

Troy: Essentially you brought up the deployment side. That is, of course, a major part of military, now all units nowadays. I guess, when I was looking at what you were doing I never thought about addressing that specifically. But there are, I guess you could call them pitfalls or things to be wary of when a female deploys. I guess that’s the kind of stuff you were talking about. That when you deploy be prepared for rougher language, or be prepared for this, or people not necessarily treating you differently but maybe not treating you differently, or all that kind of stuff, right?

Eve: Well it works both ways. One of my favorite examples that I like to use is I tell some of the soldiers that their friends and their buddies that they’re about to deploy with are people that they run into once they deploy. It’s kind of like that movie Madagascar, where the lion and the zebra are on this island and the lion hasn’t been fed in so long and he doesn’t know how to get his own food. Then after several days, all of the sudden he starts seeing his best friend, the zebra, running around as a piece of meat.

Troy: That’s a good example.

Eve: I kind of put it into really general, funny terms like that, but it’s true. After you get there and these guys don’t have any kind of social interaction with the opposite sex, tensions run high, testosterone runs high. There’s a different mindset in that. I think preparing these female soldiers for that type of mindset is good. There’s another group, or organization out there that’s looking at making it mandatory that women sign some kind of paper that says, when they join the military, be prepared that rape is likely or something like that. I don’t agree with that. I think maybe…

C.J.: I don’t either.

Eve: Pulling women aside before deployments, or pulling women aside and saying, “Look, how you carry yourself, how you talk to people, how you represent yourself, and how you put yourself out there is really going to make a difference. Clearly it’s not smart to go to a barracks party with 30 guys and two girls and have there be alcohol.” Just things that make common sense that you shouldn’t need somebody to tell you, but sometimes you do.

Troy: Well, like you said, they’re brought up right out of high school. A lot of them are starving for attention. And I don’t mean to… Go ahead C.J.

C.J.: I just want to push in there also that you’re right but — and I know you agree with me so I’m not saying anything that disagrees with you — but even if a woman goes to a party with 30 or 40 men, that doesn’t give any man – and I’m going to sound feminist here – the right to do anything they’re not supposed to do. There’s a level of responsibility on both ends.

Eve: Exactly.

C.J.: What it really boils down to is that it boils down to whoever it is that committed that offense, regardless of… I mean, if I walked down an alley in the middle of the night, I’m walking down because I have a reasonable expectation that I’m going to be safe.

Eve: Right.

C.J.: Even though it’s a stupid decision. If someone robs me, it’s not my fault, it’s their fault.

Eve: Right.

C.J.: I just wanted to make that clear, because to the male soldiers out there who may be listening to this, there is no excuse for rape. There’s no excuse for any reason for our female soldiers to feel threatened or violated at all.

Eve: Right. I want to clarify, too, that although there are of course women who are looking for attention, there’s also a really strong need to fit in. When you’re one female with a group of guys, male soldiers, you want to be able to fit in. You don’t want to feel like dead weight. You want to know that they respect you and that they want you around and know that you can pull your own weight.

C.J.: Exactly.

Eve: So part of trying to bond with them, you have to walk a really fine line. I used to tell the girls, “Make the guys your best friends, and make it so they treat you like a sister. You find your core group of friends if you find yourself as the only female in a unit or in a squad or whatever, platoon. You find a couple of guys who are your buddies and who are like your brothers and you stick with them.” Sometimes it’s not just about being attention starved. Sometimes a lot of it is you want to be a part of that unit cohesiveness.

Troy: Yeah, you really opened my eyes a lot. Just listening to you tonight, you made me think about a lot of different cases and scenarios I’ve seen in my career that makes me… I guess just puts a lot into perspective. You’re right. It is a fine line that the women walk in combat situations that no man ever has to deal with. A guy just pretty much has to deal with holding his own, doing the right thing, being there on the gun or being in his position and doing his job and that kind of thing, not curling up in a ball. A woman has to show that she’s strong but not come across so strong that they get a stereotypical view of her. Not come across as weak where the natural male tendency of protecting her takes over and guys think, ‘Well she’s just a woman. She can’t do it. I’ve got to do it for her.” And still have a social interaction without leading anyone on or causing people to talk, or whatever. It is definitely a tough thing to do. I think what you’re trying to do with your Women’s Advocacy is pretty phenomenal.

Eve: Thanks.

Troy: I also want to say, too — and I was about to say this earlier — that… I don’t want anyone to take this wrong. Let me ask you this. Have you ever heard of a two-ten-two?

Eve: A two ten two?

Troy: Yes.

Eve: No I haven’t.

Troy: C.J.’s probably going, ‘Oh man, I can’t believe he’s about to go here.’ In the military, at least on the guy’s side – so I’m about to enlighten you I guess – there are certain females that are referred to as two-ten-twos. Which are, they’re twos before they get on the plane, they’re tens when they get in country and they’re twos when they get back.

Eve: OK. I’ve heard other – it’s called other things, but yeah, I’m tracking now.

Troy: OK. I figured you probably – I’ve always heard them as two-ten-twos. I bring that up for this point. I imagine there are some young women out there, especially those who are very young, just coming out of high school or whatever that maybe did not get a lot of attention. Like you said, they’re young. They didn’t get a lot of attention in high school. They haven’t gotten a lot of attention from boys and that kind of stuff. And when they deploy they throw some of the integrity and some of the image, caring about their image and stuff out the window for the interest of having a whole bunch of attention. Would say that is a concern? Of course it’s on them, they’re accountable for that, but do you see that as a concern? And if you do, is that one of the things you would try to educate or counsel young women on going to combat of don’t fall into that crap and get googly-eyed over being the light of everyone’s eye?

Eve: That is a really difficult lesson to learn. It’s a really hard one. Women come from… when we grow up we deal with our fathers if we have them in our lives who are positive role models. But then, from the time that we’re in middle school on, all male attention generally has to do with that interest and that growing up and learning to interact with men. Of course you’re always looking for — you know, you’re either in a relationship or not in a relationship or interested in someone. You kind of are really navigating your social structure and how you interact with men. And then you put these women into an all male environment, especially in deployments, and there is that shock of suddenly everybody’s looking at me. I haven’t obviously perfected how to handle that situation. I bought a fake engagement ring and wore a fake engagement ring while I was on deployment which a lot of people who knew I wasn’t married thought that was silly. They thought guys aren’t going to care one way or another. They’re still going to hit on you.

Troy: I was about to say the same thing.

Eve: My reply back to them is I have no problem telling a guy who’s going to hit on me while I’m wearing a ring, to go pound sand. Obviously that’s not the kind of guy I want to date. Then for the men that did hit on me, I had a lot of quippy little comebacks to them. Like, “I’m very flattered, thank you so much but maybe ask me one day when I’m not in uniform because I don’t talk about that kind of stuff in uniform.” And the guys would be like, “Well you’re always in uniform, we’re deployed.” And I’m like, “Ha, you’re smart. Quick, fast guy.” [laughter] There are different ways to deal with that, but with the female soldiers that I worked with it was a daily thing. They’d come to me, “Eve, this guy is interested in this, ” or, “This guy says this to me” or “This guy wants to help me with that.” And I would be like, “He’s just trying to get in your pants.” I must have sounded like a broken record, “He’s trying to get in your pants. He’s trying to get in your pants. He’s trying to get in your pants.” No guy is going to show interest to you unless he has some kind of ulterior motive, or unless he is your supervisor or your team mate or something.

C.J.: Was that a roundabout way of saying, “You’re ugly. The guy’s not trying to hit on you.”?

Eve: No. [laughther]

C.J.: Oh, OK.

Eve: No, no, no. You know, you have to that stuff, little by little. You have to really try to mentor these girls and explain to them that that, “No, that guy’s not going to leave his wife for you. I’m sorry. No matter what he says.”

C.J.: Do women have a two-ten-two system?

Eve: [laughter]

Troy: What did you say? Do girls have that? Is that what you asked? Oh.

C.J.: Do girls?

Eve: No, we’re really funny. My soldiers and I, we had this other game that we played called TYB. Whenever we would see somebody that was just really horrible and really annoying or really bad, we would say TYB to each other. That stood for ‘that’s your boyfriend’. It was like the little game that we would play with people that, you know. We went the other way with it. We didn’t drool over guys over there because perception in the military, and I can’t speak to all the services but I definitely know in the Army, perception is the reality. You have to be really careful about the way people perceive your intentions or your interactions with other people.

I don’t have everything mapped out exactly yet on what the best ways to handle things are because I think each soldier requires different types of leadership. But I definitely hope that we will be able to come up with something where we can maybe give some guidelines on how to mentor other soldiers or give some of these soldiers some advice on how to handle certain situations.

Troy: I think that’s the point of your organization. You don’t have all the answers because you’re just a person. You’re a human. You have a lot of experiences. But I think by bringing together all these different people that have different experiences, hopefully you can bring some of the best ideas and best minds to bear and give people advice and that someone else has seen a situation that someone comes to you for help on.

Eve: Right. I’m really interested in maybe doing some community projects as well. I’d really like to, maybe at some point down the road when we have this really rolling, be able to raise money to help build maybe shelters for homeless women veterans and their children. That is becoming a huge issue throughout America. The rate of homeless veterans is really climbing. There’s a lot of stuff that we want to do. I think that if we can get these women together to do something better and give back to the communities because most of us all have these altruistic motives in why we join the military. We do it to be something bigger than ourselves and to serve our country. I’m hoping that we can pull together a group of women who want to do that when they get home and redirect their energies if they can’t serve anymore, or maybe they’re not in the military anymore. It’s still in the very early stages of being developed and we’re still working on our mission statement. But I have big hopes and big dreams for the group.

Troy: Alright, great. I just want to also mention that Eve is a contributor also to the militarypundits.com site that C.J. and I announced in the very beginning. She is one of the regular bloggers and posters on there. So, you will also be able to continue hearing from her on our site, militarypundits.com. And, Eve, we’re so glad you agreed to join us on that and of course come back on the show again tonight.

Eve: Thanks. Thank you so much for having me. It was good to hear Claire.

Troy: Yeah, it definitely was. C.J., you got anything else?

C.J.: I don’t, just thanks for everything that you do and I’m interested in seeing what the scale is for that TYB thing, because I want to know where I fit in there. [laughter]

Eve: Well, if you guys come down for the, are you coming to the Mil-blog? [C.J. screams]

Troy: Yeah. Yup. C.J. and I will both be there.

Eve: OK, we’ll play, we’ll play the game. [laughter]

C.J.: We’ll be doing a live podcast from there.

Troy: Yeah, we’re going to be doing live podcasts. We’ll be doing interviews and all that kind of stuff. So maybe, you know what, C.J.? Maybe we can follow Eve around and she can just kind of point out and give us like, there’s the TYB this and the TYB that and then we can zoom in.

Eve: [laughs]

C.J.: Well, there you go. Yeah, we can just zoom in on the whole of the Congress.

Troy: Yeah.

C.J.: We’ll be right there.

Eve: You guys can tell me that you tried to apply the two-ten-two rule as well, so we’ll have fun.

Troy: Well, that’s not hard. That’s easy. [laughter]

Eve: Alright, guys, it was great talking to you.

Troy: Well, Eve, thank you very much for being on. Thanks for being back, and please keep us updated, come on any time. Dial in as your group ad things are moving forward with you. Let us know how things are going. You’re welcome back any time.

Eve: Will do. Thanks so much.

Troy: Alright, we’ll talk to you later.

Eve: Bye.

Troy: Bye.

C.J.: Alright, great thing there. We’re going to take a quick break, and when we come back we’re going to do our American Storyteller, which is hopefully not the same one you heard last week but depending on how the show went. We’re going to do American Storyteller. Then when we come back we’ve got a great segment in the show. We’re going to talk to Aron Gaudet. He is the director, the editor, the DP of the film ‘The Way We Get By’. Troy I might need your help for that segment because I watched most of the film tonight and I got very teary eyed. Have you been through Ben Gormane?

Troy: Yes, I have, several times, including like in ’90, ’91, so.

C.J.: And that’s what the movie is about, so when we come back we’re going to speak with Aron Gaudet, when we get back. But for right now we’re going to turn it over to the American Storyteller.

Announcer: You Served is proud to feature the American Storyteller. This break in our show is made possible by the contributions of the employees of vamortgagecenter.com. And now, the American Storyteller.

Woman 1: Hi, my name is Selma Lopper. I am a retired health care worker from Juliana County, and you’re listening to my son, the American Storyteller.

American Storyteller: Well, they say George Washington is the father of our country. OK, I’ll buy that. He seems deserving. Did you know George was six feet, two inches tall at the time when the average man wasn’t much more than five foot five or so? Not that that matters, but anyhow, if George is our symbolic papa then who’s the mother? Martha? No! She was a nice enough lady. Andy Rooney told me so. He knew her personally. What about Betsy Ross? Now there’s a woman with name recognition. But you know there’s no hard evidence behind the story that she sewed the first flag. A few other women in history have come to mind, but never anyone who really stood out to me. I had asked myself this question since I was a boy, and finally one day a few years ago I decided to take it upon myself to fill this missing distinction in American history, to appoint myself to find the mother of our country.

I leafed through my modest collection of American history books and just really couldn’t find anything compelling. So I jumped to my truck and went to the place with all the answers, the Juliana County Library. I looked and I looked and I looked. I was about ready to give up, and then I found her. There she was, buried deep in an obscure history manual. Her name? Sybil Ludington.

Sybil was just a girl of 16 on that April night in the spring of 1777. Her father, Colonel Henry Ludington had just received word from an exhausted messenger on horseback. The British in a surprise attack had just burned the city of Danbury, Connecticut and were advancing on the countryside. Every farmer and his son would be needed to stop the pillage, plunder, and murder by the enemy. Young Sybil volunteered. She would make the ride and spread the word before anyone could say, “No”, she galloped off into the cold darkness on her horse, Star.

She knew as a young woman what the Red Coats would do to her, should she be captured. If she was lucky, they would just hang her. She and Star galloped across the falling bogs and treacherous paths through the New England forest with nothing but the heavens to light their way. She rode all night, stopping in each farm house only long enough to crash her stick against the door and cry, “The British are coming. Fall out and fight!”

To put it all into perspective, let’s look at the famous ride of Paul Revere. He did about ten miles. Sybil had a furious pace, covered more than 40 miles. Moreover, she was able to muster enough men with the call of her young voice to send the British back to Long Island Sound and into their boats in utter defeat. If it had not been for her courage, the course of American history would have been changed forever. If they had not been forwarded by a fearless young woman riding through the night on horseback, the British would have captured the military arsenal in Connecticut that served as the continental war chest. They would have gained the position they so desperately needed to retake control of the Colonies.

Sybil Ludington would later marry and have a family of her own. She lived a simple way of a wife in colonial America, going about her days and growing old. She left for the spirit world in 1839 at the age of 77. Her body was laid to rest on that cold winter day with very few folks knowing that as a young girl she had saved a nation and to earn the right to the title, Mother of our Country. God bless you, Sybil Ludington.

Troy: OK, welcome back to the ‘You Serve’ radio show on podcast. C.J. and Troy with you on this beautiful Thursday night. And we are 31 days into the new presidency, and the Commander In Chief has yet to visit one military unit. The next guest we have on is the writer and director of a movie called ‘The Way We Get By’. ‘The Way We Get By’ is an intimate story of three senior citizens of America as they struggle with the losses that come with growing old, and also rediscover their reasons for living by dedicating their lives to greeting troops in a tiny airport in Bangor, Maine.

These three guys, excuse me, these patriots, Bill Knight, Joan Gaudet, and Jerry Mundy find the strength to overcome their personal battles. And they’re strengthening a community at a time when most Americans have lost faith in their country. In fact, some are calling us a country or nation of cowards. But these seniors show that despite our political views, despite our ages, and despite our political distance from each other, a deep connection can bring us back together and rebuild our country.

Aron, welcome to the ‘You Serve’ podcast. How are you doing?

Aron Gaudet: Good, how are you? Thanks for having me on.

Troy: I am doing very well. I was able to watch about half of the show today. And I’ll tell you, when I came through Bangor, Maine, it was such a truly, truly remarkable incident walking off that plane. And I have to tell you, I don’t remember, it’s been a few years. I don’t remember specifically if Bill Knight was there. But I do remember a bunch of veterans that were there. One of them was a World War II vet. And barely surviving combat to begin with, and to come back and see these Americans as the first Americans that you see when you land in the country. Because when I was over there, and it’s probably the same way now, all you hear about are all the protests at the time, all the protests against the war and all these people who were talking about how bad things were. My wife was worried about me. And so I had no idea what we were coming home to.

I was afraid because what was going through my mind as one of the first units to return from Iraq was what happened to my Vietnam brothers and sisters. So it was truly welcome home.

What brought you… what gave you the idea that you wanted to tell the story, not from the side of the soldiers coming home but actually of those brave, those patriotic Americans who stand out there and make sure that every single soldier gets their hand shaken as they come off the plane?

Aron: Joan in the movie, the female character in the movie, is my mom. She’s 75 now but when she started greeting she would have been around 70. I was working in television in Michigan at the time about five years ago. My mom — I’m the youngest of eight and my mom I think had some severe ‘empty nest syndrome’. I think she was not sure of what to do with herself all the time. She spent a lot of time at home and didn’t have a ton of friends or a lot of hobbies that got her out of the house.

I would call home a lot and suddenly I could never even get her on the phone. When I finally did get her on the phone she was like, you should call my cell phone. I was kind of thinking, “Why does my mom have a cell phone?” She explained to me that she was going to the airport at all hours of the day and night greeting troops and she needed the phone in case her car broke down or something.

Every time I would talk to her after that, the topic always came around to troop greeting and what it was like doing that. She was just really happy and getting out of the house.

So when I went home at Christmas that year the first thing I wanted to do was just see what had really changed her life. She was so active and… Am I still on? [laughs]

C.J.: Yeah, you’re still here.

Troy: Yeah, keep going.

Aron: I heard something in my ear there. And she was really active. So I went down to a flight with her and just watched a flight come in. Like you say, it’s just this really emotional experience. As soon as I saw that I was thinking, “Well this could at least be a short documentary.”

Then I met Bill and Jerry. I started talking with them and my fiancé and film producer Gita Pullapilly was there with me. We talked with Bill for a while and we were just thinking, “Wow! This could be something even more.”

The first thing is …

[Cross talk]

C.J.: Bill, the character in your movie is the one that brought the most tears to my eyes.

Troy: Yeah.

C.J.: For the listeners out there, Bill served 32 years, three months and in not only the Army Air Corps but the Navy as well. I want to share a quote from the very beginning of the movie because you set the stage of the movie interviewing Bill and he is sitting on a couch and this is obviously a weathered man. Obviously he was someone who has experienced life and seen both the joys and the horrors of mankind. And he says, “I think I fulfilled my citizenship to the fullest but there is more to do.” Here’s a guy that — this is where I get a little emotional about it — but here’s a guy that served our country in World War II and doesn’t feel like he’s done enough.

Aron: Yeah, and I think the first words out of his mouth in the movie are, “I’m just a citizen of the USA.” It really sets the tone. They just feel like they are doing what anybody would do. They are really… they just consider it an honor to be able to go down there. He’s very inspirational to us. I don’t want to ruin the rest of the movie but it only gets better with Bill as you keep watching. I think you’ll really like the ending. [laughs]

C.J.: Well, great, where is the movie, it’s not officially released yet, right?

Aron: No, we are just now starting the film festival run with it. We are going to the world premiere at the South by Southwest Film Festival in Austin, Texas in March. The Festival is March 13 to the 21st and we’re going to screen three times over that time period, March 15th and 19th. We’re really excited. We believe that’s a great place. What’s that?

C.J.: Where was that again? What were the dates one more time.

Aron: It’s the South by Southwest Film Festival in Austin. It’s March 15th at 11:30 in the morning, March 16th at noon and March 19th at seven pm. So that’s the launch of the movie, the world premiere. But we’ve been accepted into about 13 or 14 different film festivals all over the country already that are all taking place in the next few months and we’re finding out about new festivals every day.

We’re really working hard at trying to organize a military theater run where we would take the movie all around the country to different military bases and screen it at theaters there for our soldiers and Marines. We’re really hoping we can get that off the ground and get it going. That was from the start we really wanted to get it out there to the troops that go through there so that they could see it.

C.J.: Now, do you know how people… we’ve got quite a few listeners and people in our chat room who are actually in or around Austin. Do you know how they can get tickets to the South by Southwest Conference?

Aron: Yeah. Right now the only thing that is available on the South by Southwest website are badges for the entire festival, which are pretty expensive. I think they are around $450. That gets you into everything. But I think they are going to have Festival passes which are about $85 that get you in to any movie screening. Then as well you can go to the screening just like you are going out to any other movie and buy an individual ticket for $10. There are different ways. I guess it matters how much you want to get involved in the Festival, but you could at least catch a screening of our movie for $10.

We’re going to be down there the whole Festival. There are going to be Q&As after every screening. We’re going to have a special guest after the first screening that we’re hoping to get there. That I think will be pretty cool.

C.J.: And I also hear that you are going to be part of part of the GI Film Festival coming up this year. Is that correct?

Aron: We are, yeah. We’re going to be a part of that festival which is in May in Washington, DC. They’re really excited for us and we’re really excited to screen there. We think that’s just a great way to really get the movie out there to a military audience, which we really think will connect with the movie. To us we just feel like it’s really this pure and good thing related to the War that people can connect to. What these people are doing just because they feel like it’s the right thing to do I think is very inspirational.

C.J.: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a movie, like I said, as soon as I’m done with my show here I’m going to go straight to finishing it up. It’s a very inspirational movie. People all the time are asking, “What can we do?” This definitely gives some ideas. If you are near an airport where soldiers come in you don’t have to be a name. Units are coming home all the time. It’s just a very inspirational story, like you said. I don’t know exactly where else to go with that.

Aron: There are troop greeters all over the country. It just so happens that at this airport in Maine, because of the location, they have greeted over 800,000 troops. So just the magnitude is crazy. At most airports the troops go through there, there are people that great them and stuff. It’s a lot smaller numbers but yeah. Chances are if you are near a military base and you live near an airport there are probably troops that go through there some time.

I think also the movie just speaks to community and just getting involved in your community and doing something, anything. It doesn’t have to be troop greeting but something that helps bring your community together.

C.J.: I think Bill also said it best. Here we’ve got an 80… How old is Bill now?

Aron: He’s 86 now.

C.J.: Yeah, 86. He spent 32 years three months and in the movie he says, “I would go back in right now if they would have me, in a heartbeat.” Quote, unquote, “in a heartbeat.” A great sense of pride and citizenship. Like you said, he’s a citizen of this country. It’s a great movie and for those of you that are listening, where can they go to watch the trailers or at least get more information about this film?

Aron: Yeah, we’ve got a great website that we just launched a little while ago. It’s TheWayWeGetByMovie.com, and right on the front page is the trailer that you can watch. On the website we also have all of the screenings coming up. There are a lot of screenings. We’re going to be in the Cleveland Film Festival and we’re going to be doing screenings in Florida, and Phoenix. There are going to be a lot of screenings around, and a lot of them are near military bases. Yeah, the trailer is on there, screenings, and just all the latest news. It should be a good place to go and keep track of the film, and hopefully be able to come up and see it when it’s in your area.

C.J.: Absolutely, and like I said I highly recommend it. We wouldn’t bring people on this show if we didn’t like what it was they were creating. So it’s a wonderful piece of work Aron that you’ve put together here. You were heavily involved, the writer, director, the director of photography, editor, and your mom is in the film.

Aron: I made it with my fiancé and my friend. [laughs] We had a three person crew. It was my friend, my fiancé, and me, so it’s definitely a very personal film and we’re excited to get it out there. It will also be on PBS later in the year, National PBS.

C.J.: OK, well you’ll have to come back on when you get closer to some of those dates so that we can make people aware of it again.

Aron: Yeah, exactly. Thanks a lot.

C.J.: Hey Aron, thanks a lot, take care. I’ll send you an email. We’re going to send you out a T-Shirt.

Aron: Oh, great! Thanks a lot for having me on.

C.J.: Alright, take care. Good luck to you. That was again, Aron Gaudet. He is the director and writer of ‘The Way We Get By’ subtitled sometimes “All it takes is a handshake to change a life.” Great movie, I got the link in the chatroom or for those listening later, TheWayWeGetByMovie.com for the trailer as well as reviews and screenings that are coming to your area, and learn a little bit about the people, the cast and the crew. It’s awesome!

Troy: C.J. that is awesome! I mean mentioned to you earlier, when I came back from the Gulf War they were there. It wasn’t as big as it is now, but they were there. When I shipped to Afghanistan in 2006, we stopped in Bangor to fly over. Some guys had already put away or shipped their cell phones home like I did, and they were there to hand us cell phones. I mean we were just sitting around, we had like one hour, an hour and a half there at the airport, and after they shook our hands after we got off the plane and we weren’t even there yet, we were on our way, they walked up and if they saw a soldier standing there without a phone, they just walked up and said, “Hey, you want to borrow a cell phone to call home one more time?” So it’s more than just shaking a hand. They are there to –

C.J.: Yeah, and I don’t want to give away too much of the movie, because the movie really does talk about everything that these guys do. There’s a funny part in there where Jerry Mundy, the other gentleman that the movie profiles, and he’s talking to a group of Marines. He’s handing out those exact same cell phones. It’s funny, he says, “You can call anyone you want, as long as they don’t reside at a 1-900 number.”

Troy: [laughs] I haven’t seen it yet. I’m going to be checking out that screener as soon as we’re done here.

C.J.: Yeah, it’s definitely an emotional movie. For those of us that have been through there as soldiers, I mean it was emotional then, and it’s emotional in a very good, positive way. For me to watch this, I mean it just swells my heart with pride that these people dedicate so much of their time. What the movie also brings out is that it’s not like these guys are bored and that they have nothing better to do. I mean they’re going through their own life trials. These are senior citizens, people who are up there in age. They’ve got their own problems, but yet they find ways to go out and welcome each and every troop that comes through that airport.

Troy: Not just each and every troop. Not just each and every troop, but anytime a plane comes through. I mean anytime of the day that a plane comes through, they’re there!

C.J.: Exactly. They’ve got their own little room there, that’s all set up with a bunch of stuff that soldiers can come and get, like sign their sheets and all that stuff. Anyway, it’s just a great film. I wish it all the success in the world. I think it will once they start talking about it — the mouthwash and the age stuff.

Troy: Yeah, I saw that too. Hey, I just want to say really quickly before I forget, Eve asked me to say that she forgot to mention that the group on Facebook she has, the American Women Veterans, it’s on Facebook. People can search for it there on Facebook and supporters are welcome to join, too. So you don’t even have to be a woman.

C.J.: Yeah, I don’t know if the listeners are hearing it but you broke out just as soon as you said the Facebook thing.

Troy: Oh, did I? Oh, man. Can you hear me OK now?

C.J.: Yeah. You said the Facebook page and then it went blank. Now I hear you. So what was that again?

Troy: OK, so the group that Eve started is American Women’s Veteran group, and it’s on Facebook. Supporters can join also, so it’s not just women veterans. If you wanted to support their efforts and what they’re doing, you can also join the group. Eve just wanted me to say that. She forgot to say that.

C.J.: And if you join the group, don’t ask anything about bra sizes or hooking up or anything like that, right?

Troy: [laughs]

Troy: Yeah, that’s not advisable about who’s the two ten two or a TYB or whatever, you know, or whatever it is. You’re right, that’s not advisable.

C.J.: [laughs] I’d join up, but I don’t want to be called a TYB.

Troy: Yup, yup. You know, I remember when I was a young, very young. Long before I was married, a soldier, I mean, it was common to always hang out at the laundry mat outside of the Fort because that’s where you’d find the women. So we don’t want people patrolling the American Women’s Veterans Facebook thinking you’re going to find a young single girl. That’s not the intent there. And yes, I trolled laundry mats. That’s what I did, so I’m not proud of it but it happened.

C.J.: You know what I did when I was a young kid? I went to work in the malls, one of those survey guys. You know, who hand out the forms and go, “Can I ask you a quick question?” And regardless of what my quota was, me and a buddy of mine named Alex would try and get as many phone numbers as we possibly could. Even though we didn’t need them, you know, the survey would be asking for 40 plus year old men, and here we are talking to 15, 16 year old girls, and we were 15, 16 at the time. And yeah, so I trolled the malls as a surveyor.

Troy: Yeah. Are you sure you didn’t have a white shirt and a thin black tie riding a ten speed bike or something like that?

C.J.: No, I never did that. I joined the church late.

Troy: Oh, OK. [laughs]

C.J.: Yeah, I didn’t grow up in the church.

Troy: Anyway. We won’t go down that road. I think we’re waiting on our freedom person. Do you want to chat a little bit more about a few other things?

C.J.: Yeah, let’s go to this Senator Fritz Hollings.

Troy: Oh, yeah, I’m ready. I’m cued up. Let me tell you.

C.J.: I’ll tell you what, I’m just going to read this, and then let me get what you think about this. And it starts out — this is on the Huffington Post.

Troy: Are you going to read the whole thing? Because I have a section I want to do.

C.J.: No, no, not the whole thing. Are you nuts?

Troy: I have a paragraph that I’d like to recount here with our listeners.

C.J.: Alright. So, Senator Fritz Hollings writes a piece on the Huffington Post called ‘Why Are We in Afghanistan?’, and I’m just going to talk about how he opens it. I’ll let you go to your paragraph, because we probably have the same thing here. He says, “I keep asking the question, why are we in Afghanistan? No one has a good answer. A few without television respond that it’s to get Osama. But everyone agrees he’s somewhere in Pakistan.” Then the answer is, “Well, As President George W. Bush said, to spread democracy. The Brits tried to spread democracy for years.” You know, if Senator Hollings doesn’t know why we’re in Afghanistan, I’d like to see how he voted on that. If he doesn’t know why we’re in Afghanistan, first of all, the guy’s like, 120 years old, I think he’s about as old as it in there.

Troy: He was born in 1922. January 1st, 1922, to be exact.

C.J.: So, I’m sure him and Brett probably came up about the same time?

Troy: [laughs] Probably so. You’ll catch some heck on that one.

C.J.: Not yet, I think we’re still waiting for the lag to come through before they start getting onto me for the age things.

Troy: But yeah.

C.J.: Keep going.

Troy: Well let me kind of tell you what kind of person he is. He is a Democrat from the wonderful state of South Carolina, which I love. But this is a guy who went to the Citadel, graduated from the Citadel, and was in serving in the Army in artillery units during World War II and was awarded the Bronze Star. He’s been a Lieutenant Governor, Governor, you know, of course a Senator for a long time. However, talk about a guy that is a little confused on his decisions. While he was Governor, he ordered the Confederate Flag to be raised over the state capitol to commemorate the 100th anniversary of South Carolina’s succession from the union. And he protested the growing Civil Rights Movement. This is while he was Governor from ’59 to ’63. He was against Civil Rights. He also supported racial segregation and opposed federal intervention into the the area on States’ rights. He said later in 1983 that he knew it was wrong but there was nothing he could do about it. He had to come along with it politically in South Carolina.

Now, with that he also… I just want to point out that he opposed the nomination of Thurgood Marshall as the first African-American Supreme Court Justice. But he also favored the failed nomination of Robert Bork and the success… but he did approve Clarence Thomas.

So he’s been a little confused in his career, in his life. Apparently he doesn’t have strong principles which he stands on. So that’s the kind of person we’re talking about here.

I want to highlight one thing out of the story, out of the article.

C.J.: I thought you were highlighting something else because I was like, “Whoa, that’s not what I wanted to read.”

Troy: No, that was just him. So I can set everyone up as to what kind of person we’re talking about as far as character. So here’s a quote: “The Taliban were our best friends in Charlie Wilson’s war, the only war we’ve won since World War II.” That’s his quote. “The only war we’ve won since World War II.” I’m sorry.

C.J.: Amazing. Amazing.

Troy: I’m sorry. What was Dessert Storm? What was … I mean, come on. “I helped Charlie in the Senate.”

C.J.: Bosnia.

Troy: Yeah, Bosnia. “I don’t know what was going on but he was getting Israel to send Stinger missiles to Muslim Pakistan to shoot down the Russians. Now we are determined to turn our former friends into enemies and destroy Pakistan. Yesterday I read an article that it won’t be wrong until charging President George W. Bush with war crimes for killing civilians in Pakistan with a drone.

Now the same charge can be made against President Obama. Five years ago I was in Pakistan to learn that Osama Bin Laden had a 60% approval rating and that President Bush’s was at 10%. I wouldn’t advise an American to walk the streets of any city in Pakistan today. We’re ruining Pakistan.”

OK. This guy, his pockets are deep with Paki rupees, I’m telling you. Osama Bin Laden had a 60% approval rating? We’re talking about what people that what, are illiterate, that live in caves, that listen to a mullah that is supposedly the one-all, be-all.

President Bush has a 10% approval rating. OK, I don’t follow everything politically 100% and can’t keep up with everything going on, but I have yet to ever see where President Bush’s approval rating was 10%, ever.

C.J.: Well, he’s talking about in Pakistan. The Pakistanis give him a 10% approval rating.

Troy: Yeah, in the upper northwest district where the Taliban and now the Sheer Allah has taken over. Sure he does because that’s what they tell him to do. The guy claims he helped Charlie Wilson on the Senate side. I don’t know what “helped” means. Maybe in the movie he’s the one that at the end of “Charlie Wilson’s War” when he says, “Ah, we don’t have time for them. We’ve won. It’s time to move on.” Maybe that’s who he was. I don’t know.

I would have to go back and watch the movie to see if they had portrayed him in it. But the guy, he is a piece of work. You’re right. If he doesn’t know why we are in Afghanistan then I do not know where he has been for the last seven or eight years and I surely don’t know where he was maybe, I don’t know; pick a day… the morning of September 11, 2001?

I don’t know. Why was he there? Where was he at and was he in Pakistan visiting?

C.J.: He was probably in Pakistan.

Troy: He probably was.

C.J.: And that’s saying — he ends his article — I put the link up there in the chat room. He ends his article with a question. And that’s the part that really stuck out to me and really got my gander up. The question that he ends with and I guess I’ll precipitate that with a quote that he gave. It’s a wartime prayer from Eleanor Roosevelt’s papers. That prayer goes: “Dear Lord, lest I continue in my complacent way, help me to remember that somewhere, somehow out there a man died for me today. As long as there be war, I then must ask and answer, am I worth dying for?”

Now he quotes Eleanor Roosevelt’s paper of that. So before I read his ending to his blog, I can’t help but wonder why didn’t he answer that prayer? Why didn’t Mr. Fritz Hollings ask himself, am I really worth dying for? The next question that he asks and he ends his paper with and ends his blog with is, “Why are we telling GIs to spread terrorism?”

So, let me answer that. Fritz Hollings, no, you are not worth me dying for. There are many people who are, actually most people. But you sir are not worth me laying down my life for. This is the man who by writing crap like this is actually contributing to the reason I would have been dead to begin with.

This is something you find in Arabic form on a jihadist website. And this is a former Senator.

Troy: Yep. And another thing in this article, in a statement that he wrote, he said he helped liberate Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia 58 years ago and have yet to offer democracy. Really, helped? I’m wondering what he did that he helped liberate these countries. He claims that of course we liberated Kuwait 18 years ago and that, but we didn’t liberate Kuwait, idiot. We kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. That’s a lot different. We didn’t liberate Kuwait and turn it from an extreme Muslim state and gave them democracy, a foreign aggressor, a hated man, a monster in the Middle East. We didn’t equate, just wiped out everything he could.

We kicked them out. That’s a big difference. What we liberated was Afghanistan. I think he’s confusing what democracy is versus providing the ability for a country and the people of a country to make their own decisions.

Iraq under Saddam Hussein couldn’t do anything because he ran everything. Just like Chavez runs everything in Venezuela now, apparently forever. And Kim Jong Il or whoever it is that’s filling the role in Korea… they can never tell if the guy’s alive or not… is running everything.

The Taliban Mullah Omar ran everything in Afghanistan. We got them out of there and now we’re standing up that country, whether they pick democracy, whether they pick some form of communism, maybe they’re going to come like the US and become socialist because that’s what we’re turning into.

Who knows? But we’re giving them the ability to make their own choices. We’re not telling them they have to develop a constitution and have to have an electoral college and they have to do all this. That’s what we’re not doing. We’re letting them do it based on their law.

For example, in Afghanistan they’re using their Muslim state. They’re using Muslim law. They don’t have a separation of church and state like we do. In all Muslim countries, pretty much, the religion is part of the law and it governs the law that developed that country. We’re fine with that. They are their own country.

We’re not trying to spread democracy and make them look like America. And if he thinks we are and says that, “Well, we’re failing at it. Why are we trying to do it?” No, we’re trying to … spreading democracy means allowing people to vote and make selection and be a free country however they want to do it.

The guy’s a frickin’ idiot.

C.J.: He is. And he says the best way to stabilize Afghanistan is to get out and yet, apparently he never learned anything from his so-called liberations that he was involved in. I can guarantee you that in those liberations… Look at World War II. We were there in Japan. It takes time after a war to get a country back up, especially when you’ve got an active insurgency or you’ve got active terrorists. This was a terrorist state for the longest time.

These people don’t know what democracy is. They’ll never know what democracy is. When know when we supported them against the Russians back in the day. They still didn’t know democracy was. But this guy is just a complete moron.

It just speaks a lot, I guess, for the Huffington Post. I didn’t expect much more from them.

Troy: Well, my good friend Scott Kesterson has written for them at Miss Huffington’s request. He’s written some stuff and that is generated a lot of controversy. He was just writing about what soldiers thought about Obama getting elected. That is one of my most popular blogs. Huffington Post of course reminds me of a Daily Cost. But more so on that than writing for them, let’s look at some of the quotes he said.

When he was debating John Glenn during his failed presidential nomination in ’84… In debating John Glenn, the astronaut John Glenn, he looked at him and said, “What have you done in this world?”

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: I mean, I’m getting… this is all from his site. This is his stuff. The guy is something else. He just says things and it’s almost like he’s part Joe Biden with a little bit of Dan Quail thrown in even though I know he’s Republican.

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: And a little bit of Harry Reid, kind of all mixed into one. It’s sad that he’s from the great state of South Carolina. It really is.

C.J.: And it’s interesting. If we’d have done what he assumes to do in Afghanistan, if we had done that in Iraq we would not be where we are today. If we would have listened to people like him when everyone was talking about pulling out of Iraq, look at the mess we would have made. Now, we’ve got a country in Iraq that is self-sustaining. It’s got a great government. It’s becoming a secure place. The people are turning toward the Americans because we said more, not less.

Now, we’re trying to do that in Afghanistan. We’re trying to create an environment where the Afghanis can take over their own country. And what does he say? “We need to get out.” It’s a matter of conscience for me.

Troy: Have you heard anything about Iraq lately? You haven’t, have you, C. J.?

C.J.: No, I haven’t. There’s nothing bad going on there, so you’re not going to hear anything about it. Everything’s going on in Afghanistan now.

Troy: Yeah, the Iraqis control the Green Zone now. They’ve controlled it since January 1. Iraqis are running everything. They control the airspace. They certify contractors that come in to work. That’s why they’re kicking Blackwater out. They run their country. There are still people dying. There are still soldiers wounded. I guarantee you they’ve got all their personal protection equipment on. They’re out there, locked and cocked, when they’re on a mission. But you know what? They’re not dying, anymore. There’s no news. That war is won, and now is the time to hang the “mission accomplished” sign up. That war is won.

All these people, including the famed President Obama who, at that time, was a Senator, and all the rest of them that – Nancy Pelosi, when she was meeting with the Syrians – were screaming for us to get out. You’re right. It would be a failed state right now, and that would be a breeding ground for terrorism. But we’ve stuck it out, and it is now a successful country, as you can measure success.

C.J.: Right, absolutely. We’ve got a few more minutes left. My Tribute to Freedom hasn’t come on yet. I got an email saying she was going to call in, but didn’t. There are a couple more things that we could talk about here, one from last week that we didn’t quite get to. Let me at my papers here.

Troy: We’re going to talk about the photos?

C.J.: The whatywhat?

Troy: The photos? The coffins?

C.J.: Oh, yeah. Actually, first, really quick… This is just a quick tidbit. You don’t have to talk about it now. It’s getting to the photo thing. Did you hear about this letter that John Kerry accepted from Hamas?

Troy: Yeah, I did. He’s hand-delivering that, I guess, back to the President.

C.J.: Yeah. I guess Hamas went through John Kerry’s other liaison contacts with the Viet Cong and were able to send him a letter that was destined for President Obama. Interesting that, now, we’ve got Kerry, who is doing the State Department’s job now, I guess? Is Hillary not? Wasn’t she the one that was chosen as the Secretary of State?

Troy: Yeah. Well, you know, maybe he was authorized. There’s a… I forget about it. I talked about it before, when I talked about Nancy Pelosi violating… I forget the name of the Act. There’s an Act, a law that says that, unless you are personally authorized to represent the United States Government, no one is allowed to speak on behalf of the Government. I’m sure, with his tightness to the Administration, they probably authorized him to swing out of Israel while he was meeting with the Israelis, and head on over across the bridge to Gaza, and pick it up from the leader of Hamas to carry back to the big O, President Obama.

C.J.: I thought this was pretty interesting. Kerry spoke while he was there. He says, “The visit does not indicate any shift whatsoever with respect to Hamas.” Yet, what I want to bring everyone’s attention to here really quick — Hamas is a recognized American terrorist organization. Anyone that knows me knows that terrorism is my forte. What people don’t realize is that, on January 27th, President Obama issued what’s called a “determination.” It was a memorandum from the Secretary of State. This is what it says. Remember Kerry’s comment here. He’s talking about a visit to Israel, where he also went into Hamas territory. He says, “The visit does not indicate any shift whatsoever with respect to Hamas.”

Now, let’s back up here a little bit to January 27th of this year, seven days after President Obama took over. There’s a memorandum that no one in the press talked about here, to the Secretary of State.

“By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States” blah blah blah,” I hereby determine, pursuant to [section 2(c)(1)] of the Act, that it is important to national interests to furnish assistance under the Act…”

We’re talking about the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act, “in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million dollars, from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund, for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international governmental blah blah blah, as it relates to the needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.”

Not conflict victims in Israel. We’re talking about Hamas here. Who are the conflict victims in Gaza? Hamas. Now, we’ve got a president who’s issuing a memorandum to the Secretary of State, authorizing money to help these people to migrate here to our country, to bring Hamas.

We’ve already got a Hamas problem in this country. We’ve got a Hamas problem in this country, and now our President, our Commander-in-Chief, has authorized another $20.3 million to bring more.

Troy: What’s $20 million when you’ve spent a trillion, I guess. Right?

C.J.: Yeah.

Troy: $20 million to bring them here.

C.J.: But that doesn’t indicate a shift whatsoever with respect to Hamas. No, not at all.

Troy: Can you say “Cuban boatlift?”

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: Think of what that’s going to do. They’re not going to all come here and be happy, and “we love America because you brought us here.” They’re going to see this as a land of opportunity, an opportunity to blow Americans up, and kill them. That’s what they’re going to see it as.

C.J.: Yeah. It’s insane.

Troy: Oh, man, I’m so glad we had militarypundits.com up. We need to do a show just for that.

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: Can you believe – I’m sorry, what’s today? It’s not even a month. He hasn’t even been in office a month. How much he has done. I said, when he was elected, just like you did, C.J., on your site, that we’re going to give him a chance. He’s the Commander-in-Chief. It’s him, to make it or break it.

In a month, I am absolutely deplored to have him. I wish Bill Clinton was back in office. Trust me, God is my witness, I never thought I would ever say that.

C.J.: [laughs]

Troy: Oh, my lord, I cannot believe the damage he has done in a month, the debt he has put on our children and grandchildren within the last month.

C.J.: Over $2.5 trillion.

Troy: Now, we’re dropping $20 million out of the pocket to bring Hamas members that have gotten blown up because the Israelis are good at what they do, to bring them to the States, and want them to relocate here. I can think of a great place for them. Put them in Chicago. I think that’s a good place for them to go. Just like the heavy Yemen population of Detroit. I think all of Hamas should go to Chicago. It almost probably would be just like back home for them, to be quite honest.

C.J.: I’m going to let the listeners of this show in on something that I’m not going to be publishing until it happens. I probably shouldn’t do this, because now other bloggers are going probably to take my idea. But when President Bush took office, he first visited troops the day before Valentine’s Day. About 20 days into office, he visited troops for the first time. Obama has yet to do that. Here we are, 30 days into it, and he’s gone to Canada, instead.

Bush’s first vacation day was February 19th. Obama’s first vacation day was February 7th. He wasn’t able to last. What is that? 27 days. No, 17 days.

Let’s see. President Bush’s first military trip came on February… I already talked about that. Clinton’s first trip was on March 12th, so he’s still got time to beat Clinton. He’s got about another month, but he’s way behind the power curve. For a guy that says he needs to prove himself to the troops, he has yet to meet with any Unit whatsoever.

Troy: Well, you pointed out that, at the Ball, he spent 10 minutes at the Commander-in-Chief’s Ball, the ball that President Bush started. Of course, I slammed him for not going to the Hero’s Ball, but maybe he thinks that counts. Maybe he thinks that 10 minutes counts as a first visit to the troops. Who knows?

C.J.: Well, I’m going to admit here you were right. Other bloggers were right. I was wrong. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt that night, in saying that there are only so many military balls you can go to, and he spent a lot of time at this one. But now that we’ve gone past 30 days, he’s already gone to a foreign country. Not only that, and I apologize to my Canadian friends in the chat room, but a very socialist-driven foreign country, like Canada, where there’s a lot of socialist policies, instead of coming to visit our troops, who are actively engaged in combat around the globe, as well as two main efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Well, let’s just say one main effort in Afghanistan, now.

Really, Iraq is… We’re closing shop. I get the DOD casualty notices as they come out, and I hardly ever see Iraq anymore.

Troy: Alright, so, do you want to try to talk about the coffin thing, the pictures real quick. We’ve got about three minutes left.

C.J.: Yeah, we’ve got a few minutes left. So, Secretary Gates on President Obama’s urging is re-looking the policy to allow cameras in the door to film the caskets as they come in. My position is, I think, somewhat different than yours. I’m kind of opposed to it although I’m not firmly opposed to it. I’m opposed to it with restrictions. It’s just like there’s a reason that we have to notify family members prior to releasing the names of soldiers who died in Iraq. Now what the media wants is to be the first one to see those caskets come into the country before those families have an opportunity to. I really think it’s wrong. It’s going to sensationalize what’s going on over there. I know the media keeps talking about we need to see the real price. But if you want to see the real price of war go and find some positive stories too. It would be different if the media was holistic in its approach to covering the war and presenting that picture. But all that’s going to happen with them going in there is that they’re just going to air more, ‘Oh look here comes 20 coffins. Look at this. Holy cow, that’s a travesty.’

But will they be there to say, “This is great. We haven’t had a coffin land in Dover for a week.” Or four days. They won’t.

Troy: I think they also – I want to say real quickly though C.J., we have about two minutes left. We’re going to keep going on this. So those of you that get cut off on the live streaming, C.J. and I are going to go into it. We’re exhausted on this topic, I’m sure. I just wanted to say, not only that but if they also want to see the real cost they need to go into the hospitals, the Walter Reed, the Bamsey, into those hospitals, and interview those guys. When those guys say, like Claire said earlier, “All I want to do is get back. I want to get patched up and get me back to my unit.” That’s what the media needs to see too.

It’s not all doom in gloom. What they’ll see is when they walk into the Fisher Houses and all those – hat I’ve seen firsthand and I know you’ve seen – is those which may be missing a limb, but a smile on their face. Going, “Yep, this sucks but, hey, I’m still alive and I want to get a prosthetic back so I can go back to my guys.” It needs to be holistic. It’s not just coffins in the back of a C-17.

C.J.: Absolutely. There’s a great story in this week’s Army Times about a Sergeant first class who lost his leg to an IED and just became a jump master. Just became jump master qualified. This is a guy who refused to give up. That’s the thing and I think if these soldiers, if these fallen soldiers, these heroes could speak, if they could say something, they would say, “Let me back in. Give me my body back and let me go back in.”

Troy: Yep. As you say, I do kind of have a different view. I think they should be allowed to view it. Just so people will know that the embedded journalists in the rules by DOD are that a journalist, even a Nick Mayo, can film a soldier dying on the battlefield. They’re totally allowed to. They cannot take that camera footage. They can film it on their site of do a broadcast on it. But they’re not allowed to film a Ramp Ceremony. They’re not allowed to film a ceremony of a coffin leaving Dover. I think after this weekend, when ‘Taking Chance’ comes out Saturday night on HBO, people are going to see the honors. That movie captures what I think needs to be presented by allowing some footage, some. And it’s going to show how much honors are paid to our fallen, whether you know the people or not. I think that’s what America needs to see. They don’t need to be shielded from it. But I think what they need to see is that the honors that the Ramp Ceremony is and Baghram or Diap or Kandahar. They also need to see how people treat it with utmost respect as that coffin comes through.

I know when I was in Baghram at two in the morning, when I was up there trying to get in and out on leave and they would yell in a big voice that there was a fallen soldier. Everyone would go out to Disney Way which is the main road in Baghram and stand there at two, two-thirty in the morning as that vehicle came by carrying that soldier’s casket to the ramp just to load it up. Everyone came out, no matter what time of the day.

At Dover, everyone comes out, even though they’ve seen over 4,000 bodies come through. Everyone comes out. So they are in all branches of the military, and they stand there, salute, and present honors. I think people are going to see that in that movie this weekend, those who watch it. That’s why I think people need to see it.

I don’t think there needs to be a cam mounted in the back of every C-17 showing a plane full of flag covered coffins.

I also think the families need to somehow authorize it. The families need to say “I’m OK with it.” The families are notified and all that’s going on before the coffin ever gets back to Dover. I think that it should be a question from the CAO and the family says, “Yep, I’m cool with it. They can go ahead and show it.” I think there needs to be some parameters around it so it’s not just wide open.

C.J.: That’s the problem, too. It becomes a slippery slope. Once they allow that in… I can totally see it becoming where… I think it was said in the chat room. Show it from the beginning to the end. Show them when they’re loaded into the plane because that’s done respectfully. Show them when they’re coming out. But I can just see where these people are going to want cameras embedded into the aircraft. Where do the media stop? At what point do they…

Troy: I agree. You kind of know where the motivation is for some of them. Today I saw L.A. Times, New York Times and maybe Washington Post were all pushing hard to make that change right now. They want to see it now. And I’m sure their motives are not good. But I think when people see Scott’s film ‘At War’, you can see the trailers and you can see parts of it in the CVC interview, he has a Ramp Ceremony on there, in that movie. It is amazing to see all the soldiers lined up. And to see the emotions from the other soldiers, the care they have for their fellow brother. To me, that’s part of seeing the whole picture. Then people see emotion from hardened soldiers that can take a life in a second, but at the same time will weep like a baby for their fellow brother whether they know the person or not, whether they’re in the same branch of service or not.

C.J.: Here’s a great way that I think we can come to a mutual agreement. I say we allow all media into Dover, let them film whatever they want there. Then we just change where the flights come into the country, a different airport. [laughter]

Troy: Maybe it’s not letting them see the plane come in. Maybe they don’t film there. Maybe the film from the second it leaves Dover. That you’d have more control over and the family could say, “Yep, from the time you start to take it from Dover, they can film it all the way to the funeral home in my local hometown, ” or whatever they want to do.

C.J.: There you go. I agree with that.

Troy: And I think they should be allowed to film Ramp Ceremonies in-country. They should be able to see a ceremony in Kandahar where the coalition shows up, whether it’s a Canadian or an American or a Dutch or whatever or a German or a Spaniard, everyone from every country. It is one thing that bonds all those soldiers even though they don’t speak the same language or follow necessarily the same doctrine, they all can understand what it’s like to put their life on the line. And they all show up. They stand at attention. They salute in their way. They’re wearing their own uniforms and headgear, and they all pay their utmost respects to any soldier not just US soldiers, any soldier. I think that’s what America, not just America, the world needs to see that. The world needs to see that we are truly all Brothers in Arms. Our leadership may not get along, but at the level that we deal with, we are fighting men and women of all countries that are trying to do something good for a country. We face the same perils and we honor those who fall doing that.

C.J.: Absolutely, and let’s end with that. Great points. I’d like to thank all of our guests that came out today. We had Claire. I appreciate her coming and talking about what she does for our wounded troops. Eve Chase for coming back on after last week’s show and talking about what it’s like to be a woman in today’s military. I’d like to thank also Aron Gaudet, the director, editor and DP writer of ‘The Way We Get By’ documentary. You can check out that trailer at thewaywegetbymovie.com. And sorry we missed Angela McKenzie tonight for a tribute to freedom, but sometimes that happens.

Troy: Yep.

C.J.: From the VM mortgage center and you sir, Troy and I want to thank you for listening and we hope you have a great evening. And we’re going to see you next week.

Troy: You too. And don’t forget militarypundits.com, that’s the new site to check out.

C.J.: militarypundits.com.

Announcer: VA Mortgage Center.com is not affiliated with any government agencies including the VA. From C.J. and the gang at ‘You Serve’, thank you for joining us for another edition of our military podcast. We’ll see you next week.