The Army announced yesterday that it was ending the “controversial” stop-loss program. This is good on one hand, but not really worthy of a big press conference on the other.
The American people need to understand a few things. First is that Stop Loss isn’t an all-encompassing, massive program that is keeping most troops beyond their active duty enlistments. In fact, only slightly more than 1% of the active duty force is even affected by the policy. Second, stop loss is nothing more than using Soldiers who VOLUNTEERED to serve a combined eight years of military service either in the active or IRR component. Soldiers in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) can be legally called to active service when/if needed. The fact that we have been fighting a war in two separate nations is reason enough, along with the fact that our military is eight divisions smaller than it was in the 90′s prior to Clinton’s military cuts.
I’m a little irate about the $500 monthly payments going to Soldiers who are affected by stop-loss. I’ve mentioned this one too many times, but there are still people out who feel that they should be additionally compensated for abiding by a contract they voluntarily signed. It’s a waste of money and it’s wrong.
Our country has lost its founding principles. Our government has told the American people that contractual law is no longer enforceable. If you can’t/don’t pay your mortgage, no problem. Congress will just pass a law that bars landlords from evicting you. The landlords will lose money, but you’ll be safe. Don’t want to serve in a military you signed a contract to serve? No problem. The government will pay you to keep your word. If you complain enough and make a public spectacle of yourself, the military will relent and let you go.
It’s a shame, ladies and gentlemen. A noble profession of arms has been brought to its knees by a bunch of whiny piss-ants who were given everything they wanted on a silver platter growing up. They’re grades were probably elevated for fear of hurting their feelings. They probably played sports in which no team lost and points were recorded. And now the world’s largest and strongest military is being forced to cater to these same brats in the form of bribery payments of $500 per month because their panties would get soiled if they’re held to their word on a contract they signed.
It’s sickening and despicable. I am truly glad, though, that we no longer need the policy (or won’t use it as often). It’s one less argument the pro-gay lobby can use to further their cause about further eroding our military morale and discipline.
Why is it that you only point to the Soldiers that have served under 8 years? What about the ones that have served more than 8 years, even the ones that have been recalled after being on 3 months of transition (retirement) leave having served 20 or more honorable years? don’t generalize!
“Brats” huh? I gave up Law school, a driver, maids and a yacht to serve my country! 6 years and going strong! please do not generalize! there are still good Soldiers out there. I’m stop lossed but will not be getting paid because I reenlisted, but alot of Soldiers I know have done their time, fulfilling their active duty and IRR commitments, and I for one, think they deserve the compensation. But that’s just my opinion.
Is there another way for the military to stop the loss of critically needed soldiers? I understand why stop-loss is used, and I also understand why it’s hated, but regardless if a soldier’s time is up right in the middle of a deployment I am assuming he still has to finish out his tour — so are they really getting rid of stop-loss altogether or just doing similar things without the label? I hope they do have a mechanism in place for retention during critical times and in critical positions.
While I disagree with you, I was following you all the way until you blamed the “pro-gay” lobby. Huh? It was like the Seinfeld episode where the girl says to Jerry that it is all the “blacks and Jews fault” out of nowhere. I can’t track the need to pay $500 for stop loss people to the “pro-gay” lobby.
I am not sure when you served (I think you are still serving) but you should be careful of what you ask for. For example, A WWII vet may think you are a “spoiled brat”. I mean why should the Army pay you anything? It is your duty? Compare your pay to what a WWII vet got when he was in the Army and I think you will find you are making a fortune. Are you a spoiled brat compared to him?
CJ my man, totally 100% agree with you, and this from a guy who spent slightly over 6 months overseas in a stop-loss status.
And I got the “gay lobby” reference, even if Kevin didn’t. See, one argument against removing the DADT policy is that it would hurt morale. And the Stop Loss policy, allegedly anyway, hurts morale. So, how can the army defend Stop Loss which hurts morale, and not defend lifting DADT. If both arguments are on an equity sort of line of reasoning.
Carson,
I’ve written many times about those affected by stop-loss who have completed their 8-year committment. If you have completed eight years and are still affected, you DESERVE that money. More importantly, if you are forced beyond your eight years I think you have a legitimate legal case against the military for breach of contract. The problem with stop-loss payments is that it doesn’t affect as many people OVER eight years and pays ALL stop-lossed Soldiers and not just those over eight years who are truly deserving of the extra money.
Kevin, TSO understood so I won’t repeat his reply. I will say that, yes, I am a spoiled brat except that you don’t hear me complaining that I don’t get paid enough. I think I get paid way too much for my voluntary service. It’s almost gotten to the point where it’s no longer “public service” we’re so well paid. When I first joined the military as a private, I brought hom $600 per month BEFORE taxes. Today’s private makes over twice that much.
yes, I’m still active duty.
CJ my man, totally 100% agree with you
http://universityforall.com/how-the-military-can-help-you-pay-for-college
CJ, people like you need to be cut down a notch. I don’t care what the hell you say we are not paid appropriately to the amount of work or hazards that we endure. You have some nerve telling people that they signed the contract and they should deal with it!! I for one enlisted at 17!!!!! Along with many other people, did you read every freakin’ line on every page that passed through your little sweaty hands when you where 17….no I think not. The military hunts for naive little kids in high school because they’re lore and promises fall short on the ears and minds of adults. I have no problem with the military or serving my country…but stop loss is wrong and so is recruiting children. Obviously 17-20 is still a child; you can’t rent a car, drink alcohol, get a loan for a house, or apply for a respectable job at those ages. How about we move the age to 25, which is unilaterally accepted as a mature age for a human adult. Since you are on the topic of what people VOLUNTEERED to do if YOU read your contract the 8 years don’t mean jack! the army can keep you as long as it wants “needs of the Army” ever read that….oh and it also states that you will serve up to 6months after the war is over…..so hopefully you can hang out for a while cause this war/conflict isn’t ending anytime soon and I’m not just talking about Iraq. Further more if it WAS VOLUNTARY then why can’t you VOLUNTEER out?? Answer that one fella. Obviously someone’s WORD doesn’t matter because most people join on false premises. I guarantee that if you or your child signed up for anything other than this and it had the same clauses that you would be irate…..oh well your cell phone contract was up at the 2 year mark, but if you read your contract it states that we can continue to charge you without providing cell phone service as long as it meets our needs. Well, I hope you run into one of the people you labeled as a brat and they beat the ever living crap out of you. I have served my country and my contract and I am stop lossed, I fulfilled my end of that contract and have no remorse for taking that $500 and I personally think it should be more the army should feel the pain of screwing people’s lives over. I don’t care if someone enlists for 4 years that is what they expected to serve, and that’s all they should have to serve. It is appalling the amount of loop holes that are in our contract; it even states that the military doesn’t even have to pay us several times, how happy would you be if they acted on that! You would be singing a different tune, but you aren’t affected and obviously you have never gotten into something that you realized was a bad idea and have to suffer through it anyways because there was nothing you could do about it.
Scott, the one needing to be cut down a notch is YOU, my friend. What part of military SERVICE do you not get. If you joined the military to get rich, you joined the wrong profession. You may need to stop, take a step back, and do some soul searching. We are the highest paid military force in the entire WORLD! We have more benefits by far the nearest competitor.
If you signed at 17, you needed your mom or dad or guardian’s permission. So, THEY failed you! Do you want to be treated like an adult or not? Act like it! 17 is a child, 18-20 is not. Otherwise you wouldn’t be treated like one in a court of law.
You’re wrong about the “needs of the Army” crap. Show me on the contract you signed. The contract states you can be kept up to 6 months after the war is over and I’ve addressed that in other posts. Forgive me for not constantly repeating the same argument and excuse yourself for not researching my position well enough. If that happens, and you are beyond your 8-year mark, you deserve the $500. Before that, shut your yap, put on your big girl panties and deal with it. You started out this conversation hostile, so accept my retaliation.
You can’t “volunteer out” because you VOLUNTARILY signed a contract! It’s that simple. If you can’t understand living up to a simple contract, I can’t help you. You need to go back to school. Maybe you joined too early for your own good and haven’t used the Army as an opportunity to mature at all. How’s that “fella”?
Most people do NOT join on false premises. Don’t come in here with your ad nauseum BS and expect me to lap it up without calling you out on your absurd arguments. And you’re wrong about me. What do I get for your guarantee? When my kids are ready to sign ANY contract, I will help them read it. I love my kids. Do you need some of that kind of love? A cell phone contract and an Army contract are apples and oranges. A cell phone contract is much like a car insurance contract. You pay on a 2-year cycle, then go to a month by month plan. It’s written in the contract. Don’t talk to me about contract law, you’ll lose.
I won’t take your “beat the ever living crap out of you” comment as a threat, though that’s what it is. I’m not afraid of you or any other stop-lossed Soldier. But, I will tell you that I HAVE met and debated many stop-lossed Soldiers. Guess what, some agreed with me and some were ignorant like you and afraid to accept reality or personal responsibility. Interesting, though, they were more mature than you and never once wanted to “beat the ever living crap” out of me. They know how to be a REAL Soldier.
As for the fact that you’re stop-lossed, I won’t shed a tear for you. I will, however, help you get out as I really don’t want your retarded ass in my Army. If we’re keeping you because we “need” you, I’ll gladly take your place and probably do a much better job than you have. And I won’t need your extra $500 either. Imagine that: less pay, more motivated, better job! The Army can’t lose. At the same time, we get rid of another brat.
Man up, little boy.
Wow CJ! You always have a knack for attracting whiners, don’t you? I think you’re right on target as usual and know that when you write about any topic, that you do your research. Keep on keeping on my friend.
Scott – ruck up and soldier on, son.
I read the contract I signed at 18. And I understood it. I understood that my commitment was for 4 years active duty, and four in the IRR for a total of 8.
And that my ETS date was just what it was termed – Estimated. That’s what the E stands for. The contract I signed back in 1975 was pretty clear to me – normal circumstances, 4 active, 4 IRR or Drilling Reserve. Wartime – indefinite as the needs of the service dictated.
And here, 33 years later, because I didn’t mind what I was doing, I’m *still* subject to recall.
I won’t pass the PT test or height-weight standards, but I’ll report.
You may not be a brat, but you are immature.
Man up and soldier.
My daughter enlisted at 17. It was her decision to do so. When she told me that was what she wanted to do, I got on the computer, found everything I could about enlisting, Basic, AIT, deployment etc. etc.
I also found the contract that she was going to be signing, printed it out, highlighted the part that said your butt is now the property of the US Army for 4 active years and 4 inactive and put it on her bed. Then we went up the recruiter’s office and my husband and I ask a lot of questions. It was my job as her parent. That’s what we do – teach our kids to know how to handle things – like signing contracts and what that means.
This “I didn’t read my contract because I was only 17″ is BS. If your parents aren’t into being parents, I’m sure you knew someone of adult stature to go to for advice.
And if you haven’t grown up enough before 25 to be able to sign a contract and stick with it, I’d rather you weren’t in the Army with my kid.
Hey Scott, I just signed my contract and I AM 17. I made damn sure I read every single line and knew what I am in for. At 17 you should already have a good sense of mind. If it turns out bad I would still not bitch about it, after all, I volunteered even though my country has a 2 year draft
CJ, good job of telling it as it is from the professional’s perspective. I’m pretty sure that every unit that has gone overseas to this point has had some stoplossed Soldiers in it. Most that I have met were either resigned to it without bitching or enthusiastic because they wouldn’t have wanted their buddies to go downrange without them and they were glad that they didn’t have to reenlist to go with them. To them it was the lesser pain.
To Scott: Young man, the anonymity of the internet has freed your mouth to speak to a Senior NCO in a manner that would get you jailed elsewhere. Enjoy that. While on this type of forum you are welcome to your opinion, your attack on CJ for his point of view loses a lot of credibility for its vitriol. You made little sense and seemed to be complaining and threatening (laughably) him for what you should be angry with yourself about. However, if you wish to claim the naivete of childhood, then you must accept being treated as a child in all other matters, including the consideration of your arguments.
I have met you before, young man. I have met at least a hundred of you, and none have I had respect for as a man, nor as a Soldier. You have been dead weight since you first decided that “it was a bad idea.” You have been dead weight to your team, to your leadership, and to the Army; not one of you that I have met has been otherwise, for they could not see past their resentment. You just didn’t have the balls to accept the punishment for another bad idea; going AWOL or deserting. Your excuses for blaming others are legion, and you claim that most others are just like you; but they are not. No, Scott, most of the young Soldiers that I have known, and I have known thousands upon thousands in my 27 year career, have been nothing like you. They were not perfect, and while some were amazing, what I found to be normal was a level of commitment to service and professionalism that most civilian organizations and governmental agencies can only dream of. No, Scott, in my (at this point I think I can lay claim to “vast”) experience, you are the anomaly.
It is the type of man… or rather, child… that you are. You are not alone. Men who abandon their children because they realized that they didn’t read the find print on the sexual contract they “signed” when they slept with a girl and realized after the little blue plus sign that “it was a bad idea” are many. You will fit right in with them. Perhaps when you reach that magic age of 25 you will learn what a commitment to something greater than yourself is, and you will realize what the word “oath” means.
It means you gave your word, Scott; on your name. It means that you, being assumed a grownup even if you were faking it (we have no way of knowing that you are really a child masquerading as a man,) are expected to be there for those who need you, and that you are responsible for your actions; good, bad, or indifferent… even if you later decide it was a “bad idea.”
Now, instead of wishing an ass-whooping anonymously upon a 1SG who doesn’t share your childish view of the world, why don’t you personally kick the ass of the one who you should truly be mad at; yourself? Beat the crap out of yourself and perhaps you will beat yourself into manhood. I have met you, Scott; and I find you to be reprehensible. Now perhaps you can blame CJ for that as well.
Old Blue,
As a newly enlisted to a retired NCO, I have to say, it was an excellent way of putting it.
Scott,
Quit your whining, why did you even sign on if you did not have the balls for it? When I signed (I am 17), I read every single line well and the recruiters were more than willing to explain everything. Blame your own arse for YOUR own shit.
Well, maybe I hit a nerve with some of you people, but as for my character and soldiering you are dead wrong. Never once in that statement did I say anything resenting my enlistment, If you read it clearly I stated that I signed at 17 and so do many others and your attention to detail at that age even up to your 20′s is sub-par with that of a adult. Being naive is part of being that age, you can’t learn without making mistakes. CJ, You can be “treated” as an adult at the age of 10-12 depending on the severity of your crime….so that statement of yours has no bearing, sorry. I do not need to prove my credibility as a soldier or as an adult, expecially on this blogg I have hundreds of fellow soldiers(subordinates, peers, and seniors alike), civillians, and family members to attest to my integrety and morals. I made no threat to CJ, however he may have taken it. My view of the military if it wants kids, and I stand by my word that high schoolers are still kids, that they initiate a system like other countries that everyone has to serve at least 2 years active duty. That would help our society and our country. Further more, I VOLOUNTEERED to go on deployment with my unit which carried me over my ETS(End Term of Service-for you Jon) and stop loss was just a added bonus, so don’t give me the “you don’t have the balls for soldiering or to commitment” crap. No, I admit I don’t like the Army, but I will not leave my fellow soldiers in need by running away from problems or commitments. Saying that I perform my duties above the standards of the Army, and have NEVER failed my chain of command, my soldiers, or my duties. I just think that the Army should make it’s recruiting practices take place at colleges and other facilities filled with adults instead of “harvesting” from school kids. I’m sorry if my outlook offends certain peoples, but I have earned the RIGHT to speak my mind as I see fit. I have NEVER disrespected a Senior NCO or Officer, I respect their rank and position even if I don’t respect them.
And about the “needs of the Army” I can give you references from my acutal contract if you would like that states that nothing in your contract guarantee’s your MOS, Station/Location or choice, bonuses, allowances or pay, and they can be changed without notice to you. If you would like these refrences……READ YOUR CONTRACT Start with Apendix C. Para 9. SubPara B. If you need more specific refrences and more examples then I can point you in the right direction down to the page and paragraph.
CJ, the cell phone contract was a metaphor….not from a literal contract…..sorry for the confusion about contractial law. Well, I see my time on here was missrepresented by my own words and perhaps my point was a little vague. I apologize for my misconstrued and abrasive take on the subject and towards people, that’s just he way I am and the way I will always be. I am MAN enough to realize if I have wrongfully accused someone of something that they had ment nothing by. I still stand by my opinion that if someone is truly misserable at their decision to join the military then they should be released. I wouldn’t take back my enlistment, but I wish no one to have to suffer through 8 years of a contract that they really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Because face it, all of you 17 year olds really don’t have an earthly idea what you are getting yourself into….you may have a faint idea but it is nothing like you are thinking and it’s not right for everyone. Having said that, I hope you the best with your upcomming enlistments and hopefully you will enjoy it as much as CJ and Old Blue. I will not be placing anymore comments to this site as it would be unnecessary. Again My apologies for any hurt feelings, maybe you shouldn’t be so sensative to others opinions. Best regards to all of you FNG’s. and to all of you Retired Soldiers. And had I known CJ’s rank(being that it isn’t posted) I would have addressed him differently.
Scott, my feelings aren’t hurt. I’d have to care what people think about me. However, you started out your comment with threats of being “cut down a notch”. How does someone NOT take that as a threat? Maybe you can also explain this little gem to me: “I hope you run into one of the people you labeled as a brat and they beat the ever living crap out of you.” Why shouldn’t someone be sensitive to this?
Don’t worry about the rank thing. I’m not a First Sergeant here or I’d post as one. I just happen to play on in the Army. I can’t really respond to this comment because frankly you have me confused. This comment contradicts most of what you said in the last one. But, I won’t toil on it too long since you won’t be back to read this anyway.
“FNG” to Scott,
I admit that I am a “kid”, which is why I asked around my friends and family for advice before joining up. While the age of 17 is still a minor, I DO have a good presence of mind to know what such a contract entails.
In my country, ALL male citizens are placed under the IRR after finishing their 2 year draft until they are 55, no matter whether you volunteered as I have to serve longer or not.
Oh, and thanks for your best wishes, but don’t worry, I’m sure my NCOs and officers will probably be of a better sought than YOU in the MOS that I have chosen.
BTW, you might also want to at least honour that badge of military service by improving your ENGLISH.
CJ…
My beef with you is done, as you said those who served past 8 deserve the money…I was at 9 yrs, with 2 months to go til ETS on my USAR contract, then got stop lossed for 374 days, (this is after just geting of a demob just 9 mos earlier) then demobbed and waited another 90 days, hoping they wouldn’t call me again.
What do you mean by a legal battle against the gov for breach of contract for those over 8…?
I am listening….
It would be a difficult battle because of the whole “six months” clause during a time of war, but the fact is that you signed a contract with the government. That contract was for a length of time not to exceed eight years. However, there is a small clause that states, “in the event of war” you will be extended until up to six months after the war ended. Since that “war” is the Global War on Terrorism and the Obama administration has stopped just short of saying that war is over since they refuse to use that term according to a White House memo, that shouldn’t be in effect today.
The only way the military can keep you in past your contract is if the Congress passed a law altering that contract. To the best of my knowledge it has not. The enlistment contract is plain and simple. “If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight (8) years. Any part of that service not served on active duty must be served in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.”
The contract is very explicit about what the military can do with you within those eight years. However, other than the war clause, there is nothing in there about keeping you past your eight years legally unless Congress dictates it by law. Since they have not, I would think that a contract lawyer would be a great place to go to civilly sue the military, since you are no longer bound by the terms of the contract signed. Another option around the “in the event of war” clause is to appeal directly to the President since that is the only other situation covered.
RUSMCUSA, did you ever reenlistment during your nine years, two months?
CJ,
I was in the Marines for 6 yrs, 3 mos active. I re-enlisted into Army from the Marine IRR at about the 6 yr 9 month mark (total acttive duty/IRR service). I re-enlisted for 3 yrs (minimim). I was already over my 8 yrs after my first mobilization, with 2 months to go on the 3 yr enlistment when I got stop lossed. I did not re-enlist, and had no plans to. I think my DEP service may have also added up to my IRR time as well. I had a total of almosy 8 moths IRR DEP time as well, so I was well over the 8, if you count the IRR DEP time.
Technically, I had 2 months to go on my USAR contract when I got stop lossed for 374 days, plus the 90 days mimimum after demob.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40121.pdf
a good read to educate yourself about, “stop loss”.
I agree with scott, I just got back from deployment and was sent to another brigade. that was deploying not by choice. I have 6 months left in the military and still on dwell time and I am already stoplossd. That is hard to deal with, Has that happend to you CJ. i wonder why is it that i would be upset or think i might desearve compensation.
I will tell you im a SGT in the Army Infantry. I will tell you that I am on my second term and 3rd duty station. I will also tell you that I am currently deployed, AGAIN.
I agree that stop-loss is legal. Stop-loss is an option that the government can legally impose. BUT, is it the right thing to do? I had no idea what stop-loss was until it happened to my fellow soldiers. Many, Many, Many soldiers had no idea what it was until they were already at their units. Should they have done more research? yes. Should that recruiter have told him about it THE WAY IT REALLY IS? yes. I was under the impression that I would only have to do 4 years ACTIVE….not 5 and a half years ACTIVE….and 4 years reserve. I knew that I could be recalled, but the recruiter ever so gently said that “IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN”, I know, because I still keep in touch with him.
Stop-loss ruins soldier’s moral so much that they are useless. Whether its in their contract or not you can’t deny that it ruins everything about that soldier. I know first hand, its not “alledgedly”, how much it really worsen a Soldier feelings about his service. That soldier is more of a threat to the army than the enemy. I will tell you the truth, I hate what the army has done to myself and my fellow soldiers. 4 duty stations in 5 & 1/2 years?! are you kidding me? screw that. I’m done with the army. Should have joined the airforce with their 3 month deployments.
THE ARMY HAS NO IDEA HOW TO KEEP ITS MEN HAPPY.