Comments on: The Iraq Money Pit http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/ Updated information on Veteran Benefits, featured Military Bloggers, and various other news and information relevant to Veterans. Sat, 5 Jul 2008 01:31:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: David M http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59848 David M Tue, 06 May 2008 10:53:01 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59848 BRAVO! BRAVO!

]]> By: SPC John A. Badger http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59876 SPC John A. Badger Tue, 06 May 2008 12:33:13 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59876 Couldn't have said it better myself CJ. Couldn’t have said it better myself CJ.

]]> By: Dan Maloney http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59894 Dan Maloney Tue, 06 May 2008 13:30:39 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59894 Right on target. You've given me fuel for thought in how to expand this to counter anti-America protesters. I'm sick and tired of having to hear them quote how the war is ruining the economy. Good Job, CJ Right on target.
You’ve given me fuel for thought in how to expand this to counter anti-America protesters.
I’m sick and tired of having to hear them quote how the war is ruining the economy.
Good Job, CJ

]]> By: David http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59914 David Tue, 06 May 2008 14:49:47 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59914 Oh, CJ. We need to talk. The biggest issue I've had in this thing as that we went to war without going to war. Instead of asking the country to tighten up and help pay for the cause, we were suggest to keep doing what we are doing. Our president took the easy way and lowered taxes. This cuts into essential government services such as the illegal immigration issue you correctly present (and I whole-hearted agree with). Reagan was able to cut taxes while persuing a military build up because there wasn't a war going on (exception of Grenada invasion and Bierut support with the UN). If situations like immigration aren't dealt with on the front end, the rest of us have to deal with on the back end, usually expensively. People who are sick who walk into the ER, instead of seeing a doctor. My kids school maintains different people who can speak five languages to support aliens (illegal or not) who show up at school. If you don't, these become drop-outs and eventually, criminals, or at the very least more likely taking the food stamps you are talking about. Just my two cents. David Oh, CJ. We need to talk. The biggest issue I’ve had in this thing as that we went to war without going to war. Instead of asking the country to tighten up and help pay for the cause, we were suggest to keep doing what we are doing. Our president took the easy way and lowered taxes. This cuts into essential government services such as the illegal immigration issue you correctly present (and I whole-hearted agree with). Reagan was able to cut taxes while persuing a military build up because there wasn’t a war going on (exception of Grenada invasion and Bierut support with the UN). If situations like immigration aren’t dealt with on the front end, the rest of us have to deal with on the back end, usually expensively. People who are sick who walk into the ER, instead of seeing a doctor. My kids school maintains different people who can speak five languages to support aliens (illegal or not) who show up at school. If you don’t, these become drop-outs and eventually, criminals, or at the very least more likely taking the food stamps you are talking about.
Just my two cents.
David

]]> By: concretebob http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59922 concretebob Tue, 06 May 2008 15:17:47 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59922 Bravo Zulu and OOOOOORAHHHHHHH!!!! Great post and good research, CJ. As Dan said, this is the stuff we need out in front everyday to shut the clown posses down. Bravo Zulu and OOOOOORAHHHHHHH!!!!
Great post and good research, CJ.
As Dan said, this is the stuff we need out in front everyday to shut the clown posses down.

]]> By: DougS http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59948 DougS Tue, 06 May 2008 17:01:14 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59948 Whoa there - the tax cuts were in response to 9/11?? The first round were passed on June 7, 2001 (3 months before) with a cost of $1.35 trillion over 10 years. The second round was in May 2003 at a cost of $550 billion, a year & a half after 9/11. Besides, as David says, since when do you cut taxes in the middle of a war (or two)? Whoa there - the tax cuts were in response to 9/11?? The first round were passed on June 7, 2001 (3 months before) with a cost of $1.35 trillion over 10 years. The second round was in May 2003 at a cost of $550 billion, a year & a half after 9/11. Besides, as David says, since when do you cut taxes in the middle of a war (or two)?

]]> By: Donna http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59950 Donna Tue, 06 May 2008 17:09:46 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59950 Thanks CJ for those statistics! I really wasn't aware of the tremendous cost of 9/11 except for the loss of life and property. If we don't finish the job in Iraq, we will be looking at a worse situation down the road I believe. I'm still afraid that Iran will take over Iraq if our troops leave. Who knows but I think it's wise if we stay awhile til the Iraqis can get on their feet however long that takes. Thanks CJ for those statistics! I really wasn’t aware of the tremendous cost of 9/11 except for the loss of life and property. If we don’t finish the job in Iraq, we will be looking at a worse situation down the road I believe. I’m still afraid that Iran will take over Iraq if our troops leave. Who knows but I think it’s wise if we stay awhile til the Iraqis can get on their feet however long that takes.

]]> By: DougS http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59956 DougS Tue, 06 May 2008 17:40:55 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59956 "I’m still afraid that Iran will take over Iraq if our troops leave." Gee, if only we'd thought of that before removing their greatest enemy... “I’m still afraid that Iran will take over Iraq if our troops leave.”

Gee, if only we’d thought of that before removing their greatest enemy…

]]> By: CJ http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59961 CJ Tue, 06 May 2008 18:05:43 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59961 Doug, I agree that tax cuts in a time of war are ludicrous. It's just one of the reasons Americans don't realize that we're at war. They don't FEEL it. They only see it on TV and usually don't think much about it beyond that. Bring back war bonds!! Doug, I agree that tax cuts in a time of war are ludicrous. It’s just one of the reasons Americans don’t realize that we’re at war. They don’t FEEL it. They only see it on TV and usually don’t think much about it beyond that. Bring back war bonds!!

]]> By: DougS http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59965 DougS Tue, 06 May 2008 18:13:14 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-59965 Not asking Americans to pay for it was part of the point. If taxes had been raised or bonds sold to pay for the war, instead of passing on the debt to future generations, support would have dropped dramatically. Now, if you don't know anyone in the service or their families, and if you rely on TV news like most Americans, you barely know it's going on. Not asking Americans to pay for it was part of the point. If taxes had been raised or bonds sold to pay for the war, instead of passing on the debt to future generations, support would have dropped dramatically. Now, if you don’t know anyone in the service or their families, and if you rely on TV news like most Americans, you barely know it’s going on.

]]> By: Miss Ladybug http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60088 Miss Ladybug Wed, 07 May 2008 00:18:29 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60088 Tax rate cuts increase tax revenues. Worked when Reagan was in office, worked with Bush 43, too. The problem is not with the tax cuts during a time of war. The problem is with Congress spending worse than drunken sailors: pork barrel projects (just see how many thing in PA are the "John P. Murtha Whatever"...) and the bloated entitlement spending that is already crushing our federal budget. Yeah, we've spent a lot fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it doesn't compared with the amount of the federal budget that goes to entitlements. A while back Cassandra of Villainous Company did an excellent post about that, showing the percentage of the federal budget, "then" and "now", and the percentages from national security spending and entitlement spending have basically traded places... Tax rate cuts increase tax revenues. Worked when Reagan was in office, worked with Bush 43, too. The problem is not with the tax cuts during a time of war. The problem is with Congress spending worse than drunken sailors: pork barrel projects (just see how many thing in PA are the “John P. Murtha Whatever”…) and the bloated entitlement spending that is already crushing our federal budget. Yeah, we’ve spent a lot fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it doesn’t compared with the amount of the federal budget that goes to entitlements. A while back Cassandra of Villainous Company did an excellent post about that, showing the percentage of the federal budget, “then” and “now”, and the percentages from national security spending and entitlement spending have basically traded places…

]]> By: David http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60128 David Wed, 07 May 2008 03:07:42 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60128 Unfortunately, tax cuts don't create tax revenues. Depending on what kind, it can stimulate the growth that is needed. Europe has an insane tax on gas that gets shoveled right back into the infrastucture. They get more fuel efficient cars, a great highway system and one of the best mass transit systems going. They were helped by massive bombing in WWII and the Marshall Plan funded by us over here. As a result, I'm going to work in NYC on tracks first laid in the 20's, but I'm getting off topic. Actually, it worked with Reagan, when it was coupled with both a lot of deregulation and huge government spending on the military. As far as Congressional spending, its been like that since day one and happens on both sides of the aisle and will happen long after we are gone. I used to be in favor of a line item veto, but now don't trust that it would be used correctly by whoever is behind the pen. War is a large unplanned for expense that my grand kids will be paying for. The other thing that planning to pay for the war would have done is I think it would have done a lot to cement the unity behind the cause. I'll put that, and the creation of the behemoth known as DHS as two of my two major gripes on this topic. David Unfortunately, tax cuts don’t create tax revenues. Depending on what kind, it can stimulate the growth that is needed. Europe has an insane tax on gas that gets shoveled right back into the infrastucture. They get more fuel efficient cars, a great highway system and one of the best mass transit systems going. They were helped by massive bombing in WWII and the Marshall Plan funded by us over here. As a result, I’m going to work in NYC on tracks first laid in the 20’s, but I’m getting off topic. Actually, it worked with Reagan, when it was coupled with both a lot of deregulation and huge government spending on the military. As far as Congressional spending, its been like that since day one and happens on both sides of the aisle and will happen long after we are gone. I used to be in favor of a line item veto, but now don’t trust that it would be used correctly by whoever is behind the pen. War is a large unplanned for expense that my grand kids will be paying for. The other thing that planning to pay for the war would have done is I think it would have done a lot to cement the unity behind the cause. I’ll put that, and the creation of the behemoth known as DHS as two of my two major gripes on this topic.
David

]]> By: Miss Ladybug http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60136 Miss Ladybug Wed, 07 May 2008 03:36:01 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60136 I didn't say "tax cuts", I said "tax rate cuts"/ Every time the marginal tax rates have been cut (IIRC, under Kennedy, Reagan & Bush 43), tax revenues have gone up (I don't have the time to find supporting links right now). And as for Europe, they are taxed out the nose. No, thanks. And for those wonderful highways and public transportation, do you know what it takes to get a driver's license over there? I remember when I lived in Germany as a teenager. It cost thousands of Deutsche Marks to take the mandatory driver education course, something a lot Germans couldn't afford, on top of the cost of the car, insurance and gas. Efficient public transportation is necessary because there are enough Germans who can afford personal transportation. Here in the US, it seems to me that outside the NE, public transportation sucks - why take public transportation that would take me hours to get some place I can get to in minutes in my car, which pretty much any American can do (even if all they can afford is some beat up old clunker), because you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on driver education. I didn’t say “tax cuts”, I said “tax rate cuts”/ Every time the marginal tax rates have been cut (IIRC, under Kennedy, Reagan & Bush 43), tax revenues have gone up (I don’t have the time to find supporting links right now).

And as for Europe, they are taxed out the nose. No, thanks. And for those wonderful highways and public transportation, do you know what it takes to get a driver’s license over there? I remember when I lived in Germany as a teenager. It cost thousands of Deutsche Marks to take the mandatory driver education course, something a lot Germans couldn’t afford, on top of the cost of the car, insurance and gas. Efficient public transportation is necessary because there are enough Germans who can afford personal transportation. Here in the US, it seems to me that outside the NE, public transportation sucks - why take public transportation that would take me hours to get some place I can get to in minutes in my car, which pretty much any American can do (even if all they can afford is some beat up old clunker), because you don’t have to spend thousands of dollars on driver education.

]]> By: David http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60279 David Wed, 07 May 2008 14:13:15 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60279 I guess I'm not enough of a scholar to appreciate the difference between a tax cut and a rate cut, but you seem to have a good understanding of it. I just think that there was more going on the just simply cutting the tax rate. As for the situation in Europe, its a chicken and egg thing. It is expensive to drive in Europe, but I stayed with a middle class family in Germany and they had a car and used it without a whole lot of issue. Getting back to topic, military action is expensive and must be paid for. Simply comparing it to social programs doesn't balance in my checkbook. Its very easy to play Santa Clause when you don't have to worry about paying it back. Cutting tax rates during a war is simply irresponsible. Bush's father knew this. In as much as he said "No new taxes... read my lips... yadada" he still knew he had to do the right thing and make some changes to deal with the economy. Good discussion, Ms. Ladybug. I think we will eventually agree. David I guess I’m not enough of a scholar to appreciate the difference between a tax cut and a rate cut, but you seem to have a good understanding of it. I just think that there was more going on the just simply cutting the tax rate.
As for the situation in Europe, its a chicken and egg thing. It is expensive to drive in Europe, but I stayed with a middle class family in Germany and they had a car and used it without a whole lot of issue.

Getting back to topic, military action is expensive and must be paid for. Simply comparing it to social programs doesn’t balance in my checkbook. Its very easy to play Santa Clause when you don’t have to worry about paying it back. Cutting tax rates during a war is simply irresponsible. Bush’s father knew this. In as much as he said “No new taxes… read my lips… yadada” he still knew he had to do the right thing and make some changes to deal with the economy.
Good discussion, Ms. Ladybug. I think we will eventually agree.
David

]]> By: CJ http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60363 CJ Wed, 07 May 2008 19:54:16 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60363 I agree David. I've been quoted on talk shows saying just that: tax cuts during war time are irresponsible. Sure, we'd all like them, but if Americans are more personally invested in WINNING this war (vice the defeatist attitude we seem to be taking) we may be able to end it faster. Imagine if all the news and soundbites from Americans you heard, which are listened to by AQ and the insurgency, were along the lines of "war sucks, but don't bring the boys home until ever terrorist and insurgent is killed!" Instead we hear, "we're losing and need to pull out." Hey, we pulled out of Iraq the first time before the job was done, we pulled out of Vietnam when things got heated, we pulled out of Somalia when things got heated. Of course the Islamic fundamentalists think we're weak. What if we all started showing STRENGTH publicly? But, I digress. I agree with you David and spoke out vigorously against any and all tax cuts during wartime (except for troops - must we fight with our hands AND pocketbooks?). Just kidding. I agree David. I’ve been quoted on talk shows saying just that: tax cuts during war time are irresponsible. Sure, we’d all like them, but if Americans are more personally invested in WINNING this war (vice the defeatist attitude we seem to be taking) we may be able to end it faster.

Imagine if all the news and soundbites from Americans you heard, which are listened to by AQ and the insurgency, were along the lines of “war sucks, but don’t bring the boys home until ever terrorist and insurgent is killed!” Instead we hear, “we’re losing and need to pull out.” Hey, we pulled out of Iraq the first time before the job was done, we pulled out of Vietnam when things got heated, we pulled out of Somalia when things got heated. Of course the Islamic fundamentalists think we’re weak. What if we all started showing STRENGTH publicly?

But, I digress. I agree with you David and spoke out vigorously against any and all tax cuts during wartime (except for troops - must we fight with our hands AND pocketbooks?). Just kidding.

]]> By: Carole http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60401 Carole Wed, 07 May 2008 21:43:08 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60401 Well said, CJ. Well said, CJ.

]]> By: Miss Ladybug http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60421 Miss Ladybug Wed, 07 May 2008 23:02:02 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60421 My point about military vs. entitlement spending is this: we have people who complain about how much we spend on the military/national security. However, if you come current spending, as a percentage of GDP (I think that's what they use for the comparisons) of those two categories, we used to spending something like half (or more) on the military/national security, and a pittance (percentage-wise) on entitlements. Now, those two categories have traded places. I would like to see more spent on national security and less (a LOT less) spent on entitlements and other federal spending (like all the $$$, as CJ noted, that goes to pay for all the services illegal aliens use but don't pay for). I still think y'all are misinformed about how tax rate cuts work. If I have time tonight, I'll see if I can't find some links to (hopefully) prove my point. My point about military vs. entitlement spending is this: we have people who complain about how much we spend on the military/national security. However, if you come current spending, as a percentage of GDP (I think that’s what they use for the comparisons) of those two categories, we used to spending something like half (or more) on the military/national security, and a pittance (percentage-wise) on entitlements. Now, those two categories have traded places. I would like to see more spent on national security and less (a LOT less) spent on entitlements and other federal spending (like all the $$$, as CJ noted, that goes to pay for all the services illegal aliens use but don’t pay for).

I still think y’all are misinformed about how tax rate cuts work. If I have time tonight, I’ll see if I can’t find some links to (hopefully) prove my point.

]]> By: Miss Ladybug http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60422 Miss Ladybug Wed, 07 May 2008 23:03:15 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/05/05/the-iraq-money-pit/#comment-60422 oops - need to proofread... "if you come current spending" = "if you compare current spending" oops - need to proofread…
“if you come current spending” = “if you compare current spending”

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