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Troy Steward: All right, and with that. Welcome everybody. C.J, How you doing?
C.J Grisham: Hey pretty good, Troy. How you doing? Literally just walked in through the door.
Troy: Boy, I’m telling you. We caught that audience by the hair, if you know what I’m saying.
C.J.: [laughs] Yeah, that was a close call there.
Troy: For those of you listening, as the intro was playing, C.J was currently walking in the door. Probably throwing all the stuff down to the side. Yelling at Emily… Well, OK, not yelling at Emily, but asking her maybe to bring him something to drink or eat. And was asking me to bring him into the show as quick as possible.
Troy: All of that while you heard that intro music, and…
C.J.: Nice. It was flawless in its execution.
Troy: It sure was. And they wouldn’t have known if we wouldn’t have told them, but people just have to know it’s just too funny. I wish we could share all of it.
C.J.: The kind of stuff that goes on in the background, people should know about.
Troy: This is like behind the scenes or the bloopers of mil blog.
Troy: We have other bloopers but we can’t show some of those in last year’s mil blog conference and who knows what we’re going to show this year?
C.J.: Yeah, as a matter of fact, let’s talk about that. The MilBlog Conference is coming this year in April. I just submitted my leave form for that. And yours truly, C.J and Troy, will be going down there on behalf of YouServed. And actually doing a live show from there. As well as covering the MilBlog Conference. You excited?
Troy: Oh, very. Yeah, we’ve got a lot of great stuff going on. Actually, great, my heater in my room comes on while I’m talking. I’m going to turn it off in a second. But we have got a lot of great stuff going on. We are probably going to try and do some live blogging while we’re down there, and update the people by coming to like a live chat during the conference. You and I are going to be doing some videoing and interviews, like you and Marcus did last year. And yes, I’m booked. Both my flights are booked for myself and my wife. The hotel’s booked. We are definitely going to be there.
C.J.: All right, yeah, I got my hotel booked. And waiting on my flight stuff to get done. But I am looking forward to being back in the DC area because that’s where it all happens. I’m hoping, hopefully, that we can get some great interviews with even some of our congressional leaders this year.
Troy: Yeah, I think we’re going to have a better to give you some VIPs in there, some folks on that side. Plus, a lot of the MilBlog community, many of them are in and around the DC area. So I know there’s some who have been there before, that couldn’t make it in Vegas, are going to be there too.
C.J.: Right. So…
Troy: You want to go do the show intro. I’m going to turn off this heater.
C.J.: Yeah, let me go ahead. Well, let me do that. Welcome everybody again, to YouServed podcast. Actually forgot to do that, didn’t we? Let’s go ahead, and we’re going to knock out our normal disclaimer here real quick. So, because today’s going to be a very interesting show, provided my guests that I’ve got lined up show up.
Disclaimer playback: If you’re using commentary from the boneheads, you are listening to our based on personal experiences from Iraq, Afghanistan and other exotic tropical paradises. The opinions expressed on the survey or show are solely those of the hosts, and contributors and not of any agency of the United States or Government, expressly including but not limited to the Department of Defense or any branch of the military. Neither do the idiotic statements of these rambling buffoons reflect the views of YouServed.com or the VA Mortgage Center. If they knew what was good for them, they’d find real talent as quickly as possible. The site is not designed, authorized, sanctioned, or affiliated by or with any agency of the United States Government, expressly including but not limited to, the Department of Defense or any branch of the military. The listeners accept and agree to this disclaimer in the use of any information accessed from this podcast. These guys served to protect your freedom. If you don’t like what they have to say, exercise it, and leave.
Troy: Absolutely.
C.J.: Yeah. We speak for ourselves. So, those of you who want to take anything that we say here and go, “The Army says this, and the Army says that.” Well, I do not speak for the Army, and neither does Troy, which is going to be coming in handy, because there’s a lot today that we’re going to talk about.
Hopefully we’re going to get a call in from a guy in Korea. He contacted me a while ago, and I’ve been having these same issues. They’re about the Army Equal Opportunity program. So, we’re going to discuss that a little bit and I’m going to tell you, you’re not going to believe the story of this guy. You just will not believe what he’s got to say and the trouble he’s going through.
And, I’ll give you a hint about why he’s having so much trouble with the EO program. He’s a white male — that’s right — and not entitled to the protections of the EO program. And also, later on, who have we got coming up after that?
Troy: Well, first, I think we have Michael and Sophie from Michael Darwin’s Theory. We’ve got them coming up here at about quarter after the hour, if I remember right.
C.J.: Oh, OK.
Troy: Actually, I’m going to back up a little bit and see if we can do some of our original introductions that we typically do for any new listeners. You are listening to the VAMortgageCenter.com’s YouServed radio show featured on Blog Talk radio. I’m one of your co-hosts, Troy Steward. I write several little blogs, one of which is at VAMortgageCenter.com’s website. And I also have one on my main site at www.bouhammer.com, with me and C.J. C.J.?
C.J.: And, I am C.J. Grisham. I also write at YouServed.com, the wonderful folks there who also support this podcast on the VA Mortgage Center. My main site is “A Soldier’s Perspective.” You can find us at SoldiersPerspective.us. It’s myself; a buddy of mine, Marcus, who is a Marine; as well as a gold star mom, Amy; and a few others that kind of pop in here and there. But, for the most part it’s mainly me and a few other writers at “A Soldier’s Perspective.”
And, we both, of course, write here for the YouServed, because, one, we have convinced the VA Mortgage Center that we are somehow outstanding individuals and that we are good representatives of their company. I don’t know where they had that slip.
Troy: You know, we fool our wives, we fool our moms, and I guess we can fool them, too.
C.J.: That’s right.
Troy: Yeah, so the other guests we have on tonight are Michael Darwin, and his daughter Sophie. They are part of the group Michael Darwin’s Theory. We’ve been playing their songs, as you know C.J., since about December when we first made contact with them. This week, on Tuesday, they had come out with their full CD, a debut CD. I’m pretty sure, Michael will correct me if I’m wrong, that all of it is completely available on the web at MichaelDarwinsTheory.com, I believe.
And, I tell you, I went there Tuesday; I downloaded it, and listened to it all week, through two times. He’s got a couple of songs I think we’ve been playing. A lot of different songs, very good guitar. His daughter is phenomenal at playing guitar. The two that really stand out, I’m Alive; and I Believe in America. Both phenomenal songs and we play them here.
C.J.: Some great music.
Troy: Yeah. So, we have him and Sophie, and want to kind of talk to them about, Michael actually has a very interesting past, which I don’t know if he knows we’re going to ask him about. But, we will. I’ve been reading his biography; he’s kind of had a unique past with some dips and valleys in there. And, we’re going to chat with him about that and kind of what has brought him to where he is today, and why he’s making songs today. So that’s the two guests we have on tonight.
[crosstalk]
Troy: Too bad we don’t have Blagojevich, or whatever his name is. He would be an interesting one.
C.J.: Boy, you know, this would be the only place that he hasn’t come. He’s gone on pretty much every media outlet in the world. He refuses to go in front of the very people who are trying to get rid of him, to testify, until the very last minute. Instead, he basically tried to prosecute his case, or defend his case, in the court of public opinion.
Troy: In the courtroom of The View.
C.J.: Exactly. Ugh! But something else I wanted to… I sat in on Department of the Army press conference about suicides. Did you see the report that came out today?
Troy: I did. Skyrocketing!
C.J.: Yeah, well I don’t know if it’s skyrocketing, but it’s an 11 percent increase over last year, and the number of Army deaths now is at 20.2 — I think it was 20.2 — 20.2 per 100,000, and that’s the highest number since 1980, 29 years now, of suicide rate. And the interesting thing is I sat in on this conference call with the media, and was lucky enough to have been invited into this. ABC News was there, the Washington Post, the LA Times, they’re compete morons! Oh my gosh! The kinds of questions these people were asking, I was actually embarrassed.
In attendance at this news conference was the Sergeant Major of the Army, Sergeant Preston, the Secretary of the Army, Pete Geren, as well as others, the Army Chief of Staff, and medical mental health facility people, and talking about this. One of the things, it’s interesting to note, is the Army’s, and this is just the Army, the Army’s suicide rate is 20.2 per 100,000. The civilian suicide rate is 19.5. So, it’s a .7 increase, .7 per 100,000 increase, for the Army populous versus the civilian, no military, populous. Which I find amazing, because when I started to read these AP — the AP, I think, was the first one that came out with their story after this press conference, and not a mention of the civilian suicide rate. The big thing they wanted to talk about was, “Oh my gosh, it’s the highest rate in 30 years!” Suicides.
The Army is really working hard right now, you know one suicide is a suicide too many, the Army is really working hard to reduce that number, if not eliminate it. I know as a National Guard Soldier you’ve gotten all the briefings. You know the kind of emphasis we put on suicide prevention and making sure that you’re watching your battle buddy, right?
Troy: Oh yeah, we do it. Even the Reserve Component it’s done every year as part of our annual briefs that are done and, of course, we deploy multiple times during that.
C.J.: And the LA Slimes, those freaking morons at the LA Slimes, so he goes and asks, you know they’re all asking stupid questions. I’m just going to blanket put that. You know the media, you can tell they’re biased when you sit in on actual press conference just by the actual questions that they ask. They’re so misleading just in the way that they ask the questions, that you can already see what their article is going to look at .
Anyway, so the LA Times guy gets up there and is like, “So what is the Army doing to ensure that the NCO on the ground, you know the E5 at the company level, why aren’t they getting these messages, because they’re the ones that could more easily understand these things and identify them before they become suicidal?” or whatever. And I couldn’t believe, obviously the dude was, well first from LA, but obviously had no idea about the military.
So eventually as we went through and all these guys were done asking their questions and they kind of went out to the satellite, all the Pentagon correspondents, obviously, first got to ask their questions, and then they went to the phones, which was where I was lurking. And the first thing I said, I got on there, and said, “Yeah, I’d like to ask a question. My name’s C.J. Grisham from “The Soldier’s Perspective.” First I’d like to say as a company level NCO, we do get the messages and we are taking direct actions.” And then I went and asked my question. And my question went along these lines. We’re not stepping on anybody are we?
Troy: No, we’re not.
C.J.: Alright, cut me off when we get a guest in there. My question went along these lines. You know the military is doing a lot. Right now they’re doing a huge study to find out what is causing this increase in suicides. We’ve been at war for six years. We’ve been in Iraq for five years. Well, we’ve been in Iraq for six years and we’ve been at war for seven years, excuse me. Seven or eight. So, naturally it’s not necessarily the war that’s causing this increase in suicides, because since 2006, you know 2006 was a crappy year, but 2007 and 2008 were the lowest number of casualties we’ve had. There were fewer and fewer people that were getting in direct confrontations, the number of IED attacks were down, the number of sniper fire was down, all that stuff.
So one can’t help but think, in the last year, think about it. What’s happened in this country to the Soldier in about the last year, year and a half? And it’s not very hard to think about, the economy’s gone to the tank. And when the economy’s goes to the tank, obviously the people who earn less are going to feel it the most. We had gas prices soaring, we were paying $5 a gallon in some places on a military paychecks. An E3 pays as much for gas as an 05 does, but it hurts an E3. And you got the economy, and then of course you’ve got the op tempo of the military.
Let’s be honest, not only is there combat going on in two theaters, but we’ve also got Soldiers getting PCS, and so there’s a lot of factors going into that, and I just wanted to bring that up. And yes the Army is focusing on, how quickly we’re PCSing people, the fact that spouses are losing their jobs because of the economy, which is putting a lot of strain on the already strained Soldier.
Anyway, before I go too far, I wanted to bring on really quick the call that you’re talking about. Actually, I’m going to bring him on about the EO program. Let’s knock this out really quick, because I think we’re going to end up stepping on other people. Do you know who the 905 area code is?
Troy: No I don’t.
C.J.: OK, let’s take that first. Area code 905 you’re on. You sir are podcast with C.J. and Troy.
Troy: That’s Michael.
C.J.: Oh, Michael.
Sophie: Yeah, we’re both here.
C.J.: Oh hey Sophie. Hang on for one second. I’ve got a call from Korea, and so I want to make sure we get that in, because he’s probably losing his much needed sleep. Alright, hey, how are you doing? This is C.J. and Troy. You’re on the YouServed Podcast. Hello?
Arthur: Hey.
C.J.: I hesitate to use your name, because I didn’t get a response to your email about whether you wanted me to or not.
Troy: How about “Solider from Korea.”
C.J.: Solider from Korea.
Arthur: Well OK, this is Arthur. You can use my first name. Arthur.
C.J.: OK Arthur, I know that was kind of awkward. I didn’t know how to introduce you. I sent you an email late in the day. I see that you had written me and I wasn’t able to get right back to you right away. Anyway, we have on the line Arthur, and I’m going to give you a little brief background. A few weeks ago I had written about the Army’s EO policy, and Arthur here is intimately involved in some of the issues surrounding the EO policy.
Anyone who pays attention to what’s been going on in the media knows that not only do we have a new president, and not only do we have a new democratic president, not only do we have the most liberal president ever, but everyone likes to make the distinction that we have the first black president ever. And everyone’s all up in arms about the fact that this country has finally lived the dream, we’re finally at that point of Martin Luther King’s dream where everyone is created equal and now Arthur, you’ve been having some… tell us a little about your story.
Arthur: Well, my first story is when I had processed in a unit in Germany back in ’99 when most Soldiers, when they had been processed had to go through a series of classes. And one of the classes was EO, when I had EO advisor actually say in class that minorities could not be racist. It’s only whites that could be racist. And I heard that again when I had processed in Korea, and the EO advisor said that only whites could be racist. And I heard it again with two additional EO advisors. When brought it up, and I asked, why are you all saying that only whites could be racist, I was called racist just for even bringing it up. And the EO advisor even told me that…
C.J.: And these are Equal Opportunity advisors telling you this, right? People whose job is to insure equal opportunity for all?
Arthur: Right. Apparently not. She even told me the reason that blacks cannot be racists is it is not in their nature to be racists. So I decided to do some of my own research. I found that it does state in several Equal Opportunity publications that says that minorities cannot be racist.
The definitions of racism, discrimination and prejudice are actually set up to where it would exclude minorities from being those terms anyway. Every single definition and example within the Army’s Equal Opportunity publications actually having only whites being racist or prejudice or acting out discrimination.
C.J.: Right and…
Arthur: So all that stuff doesn’t actually fit.
C.J.: Go ahead.
Arthur: So I decided to bring it up to my Brigade Equal Opportunity Advisor and again, she just said no, flat out racist. I said I wanted to make an EO complaint against the United States Army and she said…
C.J.: Now before you go any further, Arthur, before you go any further. Now, tell us, was your Equal Opportunity Advisor a white male like you?
Arthur: No, she is a black female.
C.J.: OK. Continue.
Arthur: So when she told me I was not allowed to make an EO complaint through her, I reminded her that our Brigade EO policy letter states that all Soldiers can make a complaint. Why was I any different? She said just to find somebody else and she didn’t want to hear about my EO complaint anymore.
So, eventually, I thought about it and I even went to my company commander and she didn’t want to have anything to do with it. I ended up going to the base-wide level EO advisor. She instantly called me a racist too because I was attempting to make an EO complaint.
Now, without even asking or bringing the subject up, she asked me if I knew why there was no White History Month. I told her I had no idea so she gave me a story of a Soldier, a white female, who used to be in one of her EO classes. The white Soldier said, “Why is there no White History Month?”
The EO advisor said, “Well, just do some research and put one together and at the end of the class you can tell us about White history. Let’s have our own little White history class.” So she took the challenge and at the end of the course the EO asked the student, “Are you ready to give your White History presentation?”
The white female said, “I did some research but I couldn’t find anything.” So, the Equal Opportunity advisor says, “That is why we don’t have a White History Month, because there is nothing worth celebrating.” So…
C.J.: So, I can’t help but think that if we successfully go ahead and delete all references to, for example, the Holocaust and burn all the books that talk about the Holocaust. Therefore, no one can do any research on the Holocaust; does that mean that there never was one? It almost sounds like that is exactly what their excuse is. “There is no information so, obviously, there is no such thing as the history of white people.”
Arthur: Quite possibly true. I think that when most of the records, as far as EO anyway, whites are going to be the ones that are doing all the ills that are in society, that is going to be the only thing that they are going to be able to research and find.
C.J.: You know it’s interesting. After reading some of the stuff and the information that you sent me, I actually went and looked as well, trying to find some of this information that your classmate was talking about. I went to the EO course as well and that was one of the things, the glaring observations I made when I was there.
First of all, I was probably only one of about three out of 22 or so EO representative students that were in the so-called white category. And I will be straight up. I don’t ever see things as white, black, yellow, all these kinds of things, unlike the pastor that gave the prayer at the inauguration.
But the EO program does tend to be predominantly administered by minorities. Even though I think I was very fair and discharged my duties quite well, as a white male EO rep. But as I did this research on white history, I actually did find some stuff. The problem is, and I think you eluded to this a little bit, is when they talk about white history — I’m talking about in one of the papers you wrote — when they talk about white history, it’s all the bad stuff. It’s all about negativity, against our families, against our heritage. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Arthur: Yes, when I was doing my research and my research was only within the EO publications. Since I wanted to make my claims against the Army’s EO policy, I only wanted to focus on there. And it actually in the Equal Opportunity representative course, which is sometimes a 40 or a 80 hour course, I went through the refresher course online and it has different sections of the black history experience, Hispanics and Asians, and white history. And all of the minority experiences was very beautiful. And I’m not [inaudible] that at all, where it’s talking about what Hispanics have done throughout history; society contribution. And beautiful stuff.
But when it came to white experience, it was as you were saying is all negative. For us it’s one thing that really ticked me off was when they were talking about family, the families of the different ethnic groups, saying blacks are very religious-oriented, family-oriented. But when it came to whites, it said white immigrants — and they’re talking about German immigrants back in colonial times and all — took better care of their cows than their own children. And that was their description of white families.
But all in the same context, they were saying that minority families were all beautifully structured. So how can they make that comparison and why would they do that? It is my opinion that it was all done on purpose, for the purpose of making malice, to not just rewrite history, but maybe a tit for tat. Cause we all know, and I don’t think there’s very many people [inaudible] that minorities were not treated fairly in the past.
But now they, minorities, because of the EO policies, now they have the upper hand. Now they’re the ones that are going out and changing history, rewriting it, and making up claims that whites took better care of their cows than their own children, while saying that minority family structure was, is very sound, which I don’t mean to say that white families aren’t. I think it’s a disgrace.
C.J.: I guess in their defense, when was the last time kids were able to give us meat and milk? I’d treat my cow better if it was giving me milk and meat. No, I’m just kidding.
Arthur: Well, mine too. [laughs]
C.J.: If I had a cow, I guess I’d treat it… no, I’m just kidding. All right…
Troy: Hey Arthur, this is Troy.
C.J.: Go ahead.
Troy: Let me ask you, you said you’d have taken this case up. Have you went as high as Division or the Post EO and to the point where you were getting this attention, besides somebody in just low-level company commanders or EO reps. Has it gotten any attention in the field grade ranks?
C.J.: Yes, I took it up to – after the Equal Opportunity Advisor for the base told me that it’s not worth their time. As a matter of fact, she gave my equal opportunity and claim all the attention it deserved. So what had happened is, she called the brigade commander. The brigade commander brought me into his office, and actually told me not to make an EO complaint. To stop with the complaint.
So when I reminded him that his own EO policy letter states that I can make an EO complaint, then he told me how long I’ve been in the Army, which I told him. He said, “Are you sure you want to ruin your career? Do you really want to throw your career away?”
So, when I called the EO Advisor again the next day, presumably she calls the Brigade Commander and then he calls me up at home and says, “I told you you are not to call the EO anymore. Are you sure you want to go down this road?” He reminded me that I had a certain amount of years in and that I could throw it all away.
I went to JAG. JAG told me they had never seen this before and pretty much shook my hand and said, “Good luck.” I…
C.J.: So you have basically got no assistance because IG told you “no”; JAG told you no; your own command has told you “no”; and the EO process itself, which is by regulation required to take your case because, if you present it, they are required to do it. So everyone is telling you “no.” Where are you going now? It is almost like you are on your own here.
Arthur: I really don’t know where I am going to go now. I’ve used every single agency that I can.
C.J.: He’s coming to us.
Arthur: I’ve come to you. I’ve tried to do the right thing. Apparently, I’m not allowed to do the right thing.
Troy: Have you tried engaging the media or any media besides us? The mainstream media? Or have you not wanted to take it down that route yet?
Arthur: I have talked to a few. Bob Parks and he has been very helpful. He has written a little about my story. There has to be a way. I think if I could get people talking, it is going to force the Army to make some changes. I really don’t think it is fair to state that only whites can be racists.
It’s not just fair to us; the Equal Opportunity program states that minorities are to be victims. How does that foster equal opportunity when you are saying to a group of people, “You are victims of white racism and there is nothing you can do about it”?
I think if I was a minority I wouldn’t think I was benefiting from the Equal Opportunity program but being stepped on. I am being forced to victimhood and given the feeling that I can’t be successful because of the color of my skin. So it is not fair for anyone.
Troy: Let me ask you this. You kind of received an indirect threat from your Brigade Commander. Have you received any other kinds of threats to your career to you as a person because of this, in raising this up?
Arthur: In a way; not necessarily a threat other than just saying I could lose my career. But without getting into too much details here to avoid my unit and all. I did have somebody in the S1 shop come up to me and ask me if somebody made an EO complaint against me. Which I said, “No. Why?” He said, “I overheard the Brigade Commander tell somebody in the S1 shop to deny my command sponsorship so I could bring my family on post because of my EO complaint.” So I told him, “I made an EO complaint, not that somebody made one against me.”
So, I guess the threat is since I wanted to make an EO complaint and the command doesn’t want to get involved, just deny his command sponsorship. Maybe he’ll get out of Korea sooner so he is no longer a problem. But then again that is all hearsay. I can’t prove that, though.
Troy: Right. Right and people are going to be careful not to put themselves in a place where they can have a sworn statement put against them, I’m sure. Arthur, you are in a heck of a pickle and my heart goes out to you. I don’t know where to point you. It sounds like you are a man of experience in the military. You’ve went on a path that you can probably go outside of going through your congressman. That is a suggestion from the chatroom and I think it is a good one. If IG doesn’t work, congressman always does.
But today’s times with our first president that happens to be black or part black. Do you think a congressman or that route would even help? It may just be bad timing on your part seeing that you’re not get any assistance anyway.
Arthur: I think that a congressman or senator would have nothing to do with this. Nothing. And not just having a black president would be not really on my site but I think just like whenever a white person talks about racism or reverse discrimination it’s automatically taboo and that just drives people away. But if a black Soldier or any minority says anything, all the agencies would be lined up to help.
C.J.: I remember when I went through the course I remember they would specifically say there is no such thing as reverse discrimination. [laughs] Racism is racism is the way I always looked at it. And when I went through the course it was something that stuck out at me as well, but I don’t think I ever thought or cared much about it to make it a case, although as I’ve been reading currently – I mean, I haven’t been through the course in 10 years – it seems to me some changes need to be made because we are no longer where we were in the ’60s and the ’70s, heck, even the beginning parts of the ’80s.
This country is completely different. I realize that there are people in this country and, obviously, in the military who are racist. But the majority of us are not. I grew up in the military and know that I never saw between black and white. I just grew up with people. I had a black girlfriend and it never occurred to me I had a black girlfriend when I was growing up because it was just my girlfriend.
And until this country moves past all that and realizes – we create, I think, in this country and especially the EO Program. The EO Program creates racism where there is none. You can argue with two people about the exact same thing, but if one of those people ends up being a person of the opposite ethnicity than you, you’re suddenly arguing because you’re a racist. And I think that’s something we need to move past.
But I’m going to let Troy say the final thing. We’re going to let you wrap up here. Troy?
Troy: Yeah. I just want to say, Arthur, three names come to mind if you want to take it down this route. But I think one of these three, if not all, would champion this cause: Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh. Sorry it has to go that route, but I don’t think anyone else would touch it because they’re too worried about the touch-touchy, feely-feely stuff. Those three guys, I think if they got a hold of this story they would start to raise some ruckus.
Lord knows President Obama has already been badmouthing Rush Limbaugh and he hasn’t even been in office a month yet. So he’s got his attention. And with that I’ll let you – any final comments? Anything you want to say, Arthur?
Arthur: OK, yes. There is one other thing. Now later, February 18th through the 20th, NAOMI, which is where all the equal opportunity for the military really comes from, I’m going to be there for a symposium discussing the Army’s equal opportunity program in front of them all. I did write a paper requesting to go to the symposium to speak and they did allow me to go. So I will be there and – I hope it’s going to be more – I’m speaking in front of the organization that has designed all these regulations, really, and I’m going to be criticizing them. But through my understanding from talking to them on the phone they seem very receptive and will allow me to speak.
But one additional thing, I did write a book which my wife actually published because in the Army, as a Soldier, I’m not allowed to write and criticize the Army. My wife just put together a book called “Exposing the Army’s Equal Opportunity Double Standard.” And it’s a short read, but the idea is to discuss the double standards of the military where everything is the white man’s fault and minorities are always victims.
I do have a website where anybody could go in there and read it and criticize me or support me or one or the other. But I never claim to be –
C.J.: What is that website?
Arthur: It is www.EODoubleStandard.net.
C.J.: www.EODoubleStandard.net.
Arthur: That’s correct.
C.J.: Now, Arthur, let me ask you this. I’m going to be straight up front with you and ask the tough questions here. Do you think you’re a racist?
Arthur: I am not a racist. In order to be a racist –
C.J.: Do you think that white people are superior to black people or Asian people or anything else?
Arthur: No, I don’t think that. I’m not a scientist or a biologist or anything. I’m just a Soldier that’s been in 15 years. But from my experience, I do not think that one race has been chosen by God to be more superior to others. I mean, that would go against God’s principles in the Bible. I do not think one race could be superior. I see some really smart people all across the board, and some dumb people across the board.
C.J.: OK. And that’s kind of what I wanted to get at. You’re not doing this because you inherently dislike or have some sort of grudge against so called minorities. You know, when I write about minorities and blacks and whites, I always use quotation marks because I just don’t believe in it.
In fact, I pissed off many of my commanders and my administrative folks because whenever I fill out any form I intentionally leave my race blank, because I have yet to see a form that says human on there. And I’ve gotten in arguments with them about you didn’t fill this out. I’m like, well, OK, I’m not going to fill it out. Well, you need to put your race. No, why don’t you put in your race? I refuse to classify myself.
And I think you’re on the right track here, and I would also add, you know we’ve talked offline as well as on the phone. So, you know my thoughts about this. But I think you should go at it. You know, there are worse things in life than losing an Army career over doing what’s right. And I’m right here 100 percent behind you, and we’d really like to hear from you as you go through this process, especially when you go down to DME.
We’d like to hear from you again about how that went, and kind of get some feedback from you.
Troy: Hey, Arthur, do you still have that video up on YouTube on finding that yours is not there?
Arthur: Yes, yes mine also.
Troy: Under the same name, “Exposing the Army’s Equal Opportunity Double Standard”?
Arthur: Yes.
Troy: OK, I found your book on Amazon, at the link in the chatroom. Yeah. Alright.
C.J.: Yeah, we’ve got a link at both. Go ahead.
Arthur: The idea of the book really is just to get the word out. Just try to get people to speak and talk, because I talk to Soldiers here in Korea and everywhere else I’ve been really talk about how unequal the equal opportunity program is. And even black Soldiers and Hispanic Soldiers say the same thing. But we just can’t talk about it, and we need to get that fixed. We need to be able to talk about it and actually make the equal opportunity program equal.
C.J.: We might have a caller on the phone. Do you have a question for Arthur? We got a caller, looks like a straight call.
Troy: Yeah, looks like a straight call.
C.J.: You’re on the YouServed podcast. Hello. Hello. Alright, it’s not Michael, I know that much. Is there a caller waiting to talk?
Caller: Michael is.
C.J.: Oh, is this Michael?
Caller: No, it’s me here.
Troy: Oh, it’s him.
C.J.: Oh, OK. I thought it was 508.
Troy: I don’t know. Michael didn’t come in on the 905.
C.J.: OK, here he comes on the 508, you’re on the YouServed podcast.
Paul: Hi, C.J., it’s Paul here.
C.J.: Hey, Paul, how you doing? You got a question for either of us or Arthur?
Paul: Well, I just wanted to comment. You know I’m serving in the Army Reserves today, and several years ago I was a company commander myself. And I had a company, in my opinion was one of the most diverse units in the entire Army, OK? I mean, if you have a racial group we probably had it, OK?
And everybody to the best of my knowledge, unless there was something that I didn’t see as the company commander, everybody got along. You know? And the stories officers tell me about what commanders are saying, I mean, as an officer those officers embarrass me.
C.J.: Yeah, hey, absolutely.
Paul: You know?
C.J.: And, you know, it’s hard. Sometimes it’s politically difficult to put your career on the line like that, especially if you have a commission. The companies where it happens. Hey, thanks, Paul. You have anything else?
Paul: I put in the chatroom, and you agreed with me, this can all be summed up in one word; leadership. Specifically, competent leadership.
C.J.: Exactly. It takes good leadership, and apparently Arthur doesn’t have good leadership over there that’s willing to do the right thing. Instead, you know, they just want to get their time over with. They don’t want to cause any problems. They don’t want to deal with the right thing, so now they’re going to perpetuate a bad policy.
Troy: Exactly.
C.J.: Yeah.
Paul: Hey, C.J., thanks for taking my call. I appreciate.
C.J.: No problem. Area code 646, you’re on the YouServed podcast with C.J. and Troy. Hello, do you have a comment for Arthur?
Brat: Hello!
Troy: 646, yes.
C.J.: Hello.
Brat: Hi!
C.J.: Hi!
Brat: Is this C.J.?
C.J.: Yes, it is.
[laughs]
C.J.: Who is this?
Brat: Hi, C.J., how are you?
C.J.: Hi, I’m doing well. You’re live on the air with C.J., Troy, and our guest Arthur.
Brat: Oh, hi, this is Brat, I thought this was Michael and Sophie on. I can’t get into chat or log on, so I’m phoning in to say hi.
C.J.: Oh, OK, well in that case I’m going to put you on hold because we’re finishing up with Arthur, then we’re going to bring Michael and Sophie on.
Brat: Alright.
C.J.: Alright, OK.
[laughs]
C.J.: Alright.
Troy: Live radio as it happens.
C.J.: It’s great, it’s great. Hey, Arthur, again we appreciate your time. We’ve got links to your website, as well as the book on the chatroom, and we’ll be putting that as well on the show notes so people can see that in the future. Again, the website is www.eodoublestandard.net, and you can also find his book, “Exposing the Army’s Equal Opportunity Double Standard” on Amazon.com under the, yeah. Anything else before we let you go, Arthur?
Arthur: No, but I really do appreciate this opportunity to get this word out.
C.J.: Yeah, it’s interesting. The media, like we talked about just before you went on, they’re willing to talk about the suicide rates in the Army, but when it comes to, you know. If the Army had a huge white supremacy racist problem, this would be all over the Army Times, all over the media. But because it’s a problem of so-called reverse racism, it’s just something that people don’t want to talk about. And we definitely appreciate what you’re doing, and look forward to hearing more from you as we get the update after your visit to DME.
Arthur: I’ll make sure I call you up and let you know.
C.J.: Alright, Arthur, take care of yourself. Good luck and you’ve got some support back here.
Arthur: Alright, thank you. Goodbye.
C.J.: Alright, take care. Alright, guys, Arthur from overseas. I’ll just keep it at that.
Troy: I think you said at the time where you said, that’s all right.
C.J.: Yeah, he did say Korea. Troy, it’s a shame. It’s something I honestly haven’t had to deal with in a long time. I didn’t realize it when he first contacted me about a post I had written called I’m a racist. I wrote this post called I’m a racist, and I wrote about how people were calling me racist simply because I didn’t vote for Barack Obama and I named so many black people.
And I’m putting up a little air quote hear, black people, because I don’t, it’s just frustrating.
Troy: Yeah, I remember that one and I knew it would get some attention.
C.J.: Oh yeah. You know, there are so many black people I would vote for in a heartbeat. And not only black people, but female I would vote for in a heartbeat. And it’s just, you don’t see them. And one of the things that frustrates me and I feel bad about, you know the minority community, the black community, has made a big deal about the fact that Barack Obama is our first president. And I’m really, I sure hope things turn around quickly.
I mean, granted we’ve only had a week here but I truly hope that Barack Obama becomes successful and the only way he’s going to do that is by changing a few of his ideas. Because if he doesn’t, if Barack Obama turns out to be a complete travesty, I mean that’s just not good for the so-called black community.
Troy: Well, it’s not going to be good for the entire country. But I’ll tell you, it was a reverse racism back in the 80′s, I’d seen it firsthand. And most recently I talked about a lot of times, C.J., when we were live at the inauguration when Reverend Lowery gave that speech at the end of the benediction, if that wasn’t reverse racism then I don’t belong in the service because that was what it was.
C.J.: Absolutely.
Troy: Anyway, we had a good talk on that. I think it’s time we need to get on to a very patient Michael and Sophie, don’t you?
C.J.: Absolutely.
Troy: Alright, so with that, welcome, Michael and Sophie, how are y’all doing?
Michael Darwin: Hi you guys, how you doing?
Sophie Darwin: Good, thank you. You guys have awesome names. They crack me up. C.J., Troy; I wish my name was as cool. [laughing]
Troy: [laughs] C.J.’s is cool. From MilBlogging.com we have J.P. then we got C.J. I need to come up with a two letter…
Michael: No, Troy is good. It reminds me of the Trojan Horse for some reason; back in Spartacus’ times.
Troy: OK. That’ll work, but I tell you, Sophie is a cool name. Michael is of course a great common name, and Michael Darwin Theory — couldn’t have a better name for a band. You got my attention the first time I heard it.
Michael: Thank you, Thank you. Well, I’d like to thank you for giving us this opportunity, and on a personal level, I really want to thank both of you guys for all you’ve done for us. I mean it from the bottom of my heart. We appreciate it greatly.
Troy: Well I’m not sure we’ve done. You know we’ve got a few listeners here and there… But I love free stuff, and free music is right up there with it, so when I first came across your stuff it was awesome. Putting the whole thing on the web is phenomenal. The music is great, and as I said last week, and I know you guys have been listening to our show for a while. “I’m Alive” strikes close to home with me because it’s specifically about a guy in Afghanistan.
So with that, I’m going to ask you about that song first. We’re going to cover that and talk a little bit about your past, but what prompted you to write that song and specifically those kind of lyrics? What did you see, hear, or experience that lead you to that?
C.J.: Should we play it first for everybody? I know we’ve played it in the past, but to kind of refresh people about the lyrics that we’re about to talk about?
Troy: Yeah you want to play a piece of it?
C.J.: Yeah let’s play it. You’re talking about “I’m Alive” right?
Troy: Yeah, you going to play it?
C.J.: Yeah let’s do it. Before we get into the complete interview I’d really like people to hear this again. I know we’ve been playing it for that past couple days but as we get into the meaning behind it, I really want it to be fresh on people’s minds. So this is the Michael Darwin Theory and their song, “I’m Alive” and we’ll come back and talk with Michael and Sophie Darwin right after this.
[song plays]
Troy: With that, now that everyone has heard it again, reminding everybody, and Michael I apologize; we should have done that first. Thank you to C.J. for thinking of that.
Now that we’ve all heard that, let me ask you specifically, and you’ve had a few minutes to kind of think of your answer if I kind of caught you on the spot. What led you to coming up with those lyrics, writing that song, what motivated you, what did you see?
Michael: Well the biggest line in the song, really, is, “When I go out I meet people, call me hero, shake my hand, but there’s others here who hate me, make me feel like I’m in enemy land.” And I mean that’s the main thing. And you know I’m not going to try and sugar coat things. A lot of people love the military but a lot of people say terrible things and are definitely against the military. And I think that is just totally unfair. Whether you support the war, or don’t support the war, at least support the people that are there trying to change the world. And that is what upset me the most and then I figured I’d tell this tragic story. And I mean this song could have been written in Iraq or Afghanistan. It doesn’t really matter.
Troy: Well, I like the Afghan scene.
[laughter]
Troy: You did say that. Now, I got to say when I first heard it, what I thought it was going toward, the motivation was being a Wounded Warrior with a prosthetic leg. You mentioned that.
Michael: Yes.
Troy: A prosthetic leg. But I’ll tell you just real quick because I’ve got a lot more stuff I want to ask you. What got me when I first got into the song and heard it is I thought of the guys, the awesome Soldiers that I met in 2007 when I was at the Fisher House in Walter Reed with Gary Trudeau and a couple of other folks. We were meeting these guys and what you wrote in that second verse is exactly the way they were. They had lost their arm. All of them had pretty much lost something; were in wheelchairs and just had the best sense of humor. They were like, “You know what? Hey, I’m alive and I’m here. This ain’t nothing I can’t handle.”
When I read that I thought, “Man, has he been to Walter Reed? Has Michael set down with those guys?” Because that is exactly the reflection I got from those guys.
Michael: No, sadly I haven’t met any of them. But you watch on TV and you see that. Being a civilian with no Army connections, you just do what I see on TV and so on. But that that’s…
Sophie: We don’t have the budget for that.
[laughter]
Michael: But they are heroes. Those guys are heroes, you know. I want to give something to them.
Troy: Now the name Norman Reynolds, is that anyone in your past? Is that a past family member? Or did you just make…
Michael: No, that is just…
Troy: …that up or?
Michael: No, that is just mythical.
Troy: Do you have anyone that has ever been in your family ancestry that was in the military?
Michael: No, not really. Not really.
Troy: Really?
Michael: I say not really because my grandfather was in the Greek military and he got a Medal of Honor. It is a cloudy story on what happened anyway. Some say he killed a general or whatever. Others say he went and assassinated someone. I’m not really sure. I was never too clear on the story. We’ll leave it at that.
Troy: Alright. Let me ask you since you’ve got Sophie. Sophie, you’re on the line right?
Sophie: Yes I am.
Troy: When your dad brought these lyrics to you or you saw them for the first time, what was your initial feeling when you first read them?
Sophie: I guess I was just touched by the way he is able to paint this picture. There is a lot of imagery in the song. It is a sad song but it is also a triumphant song; one that reminds us of the resiliency of the human spirit; the ability to meet challenges and overcome them despite all the terrible odds.
Troy: Yes. I think that is a good way to put it. If you look at the last few lines, “I don’t know if I am lucky or cursed when it comes to life. I’ve seen the best and I’ve seen the worst.” Those lines just capture what you just said and then some. I could see that.
Had you and your dad ever talked about writing something along this line; essentially a dedication to the troops? Or did this kind of catch you off guard when he brought this to you for the first time?
Sophie: I didn’t think that heavily about it either way.
Michael: I think it just surprised her.
Sophie: Yes, I guess I wasn’t expecting it initially but it was a good surprise so it all worked out.
Troy: Alright. I see that we’ve got a couple of callers on. C.J. you want to bring them on? Or do you want to run with this one?
C.J.: Absolutely. Area code 646. You are on a U-serve Podcast with C.J. and Troy and our guest the Michael Darwin Theory or Michael Darwin’s Theory, excuse me.
Brat: Hi C.J. Hi, Michael. Hi, Sophie.
C.J.: This is Brat.
Brat: This is Brat.
Troy: Well hello.
Michael: The Army Brat?
Brat: This is the tender-loving Brat.
C.J.: We love you.
Brat: We love you too and I love your song.
Michael: Thank you for everything.
Brat: Well I’m going to keep plugging you guys, because I love that song. And I know it’s about the American Soldier, but obviously I have other Soldiers close to my heart as well. As well as the American Soldier. And it really does speak to all Soldiers and I want to thank you for that.
Michael: Thank you, thank you so much.
Brat: Keep on writing kid.
C.J.: Thanks, Brat. Brat’s one of our Canadian neighbors and patriots, and I consider her as much an American as she considers me a Canadian, I guess.
Michael: [laughing] Well, I don’t want to miss meet anyone, C.J. I’m not an American citizen. [laughing] Although I do love America and I absolutely love Americans. I’ve lived a good portion of my life in America. And I own a home in America, and it is my dream to become an American citizen, but since post 9/11 it’s very difficult. But if anyone condemns me for that then that’s all their trouble.
C.J.: No, not at all.
Brat: I would never condemn you for that.
C.J.: As a matter of fact last week I had a British RAF pilot.
Troy: Well I can tell you Michael A good…
Sophie: Yeah I do it… [laughing]
Michael: See my daughter condemns me.
Sophie: Yeah do it for her. [laughing]
Brat: And I love America too Michael.
Michael: Thank you.
Troy: Yeah, a good friend of C.J. and mine. Toby Nun is an Canadian citizen and has fought and shed blood for the United States of America. So, you know, just like we see no race we see no nationality. You live here you do this stuff and it doesn’t matter to me one way hide or nothing.
Brat: Well my tag line. If I can just say this before I leave? My tag line on Soldier’s Angels is “Every Soldier is one of our own”. And that sort of says it doesn’t matter what flag you fly under. If you’re in the sandbox together, you’re ours.
C.J.: That’s right. Thanks, Brat.
Brat: Thank you. Carry on.
Michael: Thank you, Brat, thank you.
Sophie: Thank you.
C.J.: Good talking to you.
Brat: Bye.
C.J.: And we’ve also go Yankee Mom on the phone. You’re on the user pod cast with C.J. and Troy and our guests Sophie and Michael Darwin.
Michael: Can I start and say, Yankee Mom, here’s another one that I love and great supporter of. So thank you for everything.
Yankee Mom: Oh, Michael your welcome. Thank you.
Michael: You’re very dear to my heart.
Yankee =: Oh, It’s just when I heard the song, your first song about “I believe in America”, I heard it on the day I really needed to hear it, because of the elections here and everything that was going on. And I was just sitting here going “Oh, my god”. And then this email comes from Sandy, and it was like, oh, yes. And you really helped me out there, Michael. [laughing]
Michael: Well thank you. I hope many people start believing in America again.
Yankee: Well yeah, yeah me too. And then, of course, with all the trips I’ve made to the VA hospitals and Walter Reed and the Palo Alto VA hospital talking to kids that got blowed up. They’re all going to get your “I’m Alive” song that’s all there is to it. They’re all going to get it from me.
Michael: Thank you.
Sophie: Thank you for your support.
Yankee: Oh, yeah and, Sophie, you’re adorable. You are just adorable. I love this whole father-daughter thing. I mean it is just so incredible, and god can you play.
Sophie: Thank you very much.
Yankee: Yeah my husband, he a guitar player too, and he’s going, “Whoa.” [laughs]
C.J.: Yeah, I was telling Troy during that song, “Man that guitar work is just awesome.” I don’t know if it was her or not.
Michael: That was actually me but anyway we go back and forth. [laughing]
Yankee: Well if you ever get to Virginia we got a recording studio here, hon.
Michael: well we certainly hope to come to Virginia. We certainly hope to come to Virginia and go everywhere. We certainly hope to be there, and absolutely we’ll be having a beer together, I hope.
Yankee: Well yea you got a room here so there’s not a problem.
Michael: Thank you.
Yankee: So, anyways I’ll let you go talk and everything cause I want to hear your story too. So, God bless you dear and it’s real great to talk to you and…
Sophie: Thank you very much.
Michael: God bless you too Deb.
Yankee: I’ll be talking to you. OK. Bye.
C.J.: Well, thank you so much. And for both Brat and Deb calling in your both going to get a copy of “No Enemy but Peace,” the comic book. So send me an email with your mailing address and we’re going to send those out to you.
Troy: Right, we finally got some callers in. That’s what we need top name folks like Micheal Darwin here to do that. Alright that was great kind of a reunion and I guess, Michael, you heard from them before. You’ve been in contact with those wonderful ladies.
Michael: Well my wife is, yes. My wife is my manager, agent, everything.
Troy: Yeah, I’ve been talking with her for quite a bit, definitely. Let’s talk about the “I Believe in America” another very good song. Kind of unique in how you did it. Can you give me some history or background on that song specifically?
Michael: You mean unique in the way that I used the negative with the positive at the end?
Troy: It’s almost like it’s narrated in certain parts.
Michael: Yeah its funny one C.J. said I normally don’t play hip hop but I’ll play that I never really thought of myself as a hip-hop artist.
Sophie: I don’t either. [laughter]
Michael: But it’s written obviously because of these troubled times and so fed up with hearing everybody constantly down on America. I mean it’s time for America to come back. For America to make the great comeback that I know it’s capable of making. There’s not any more proud and constructive and creative people than Americans.
And American has led the way for the last one hundred years and will continue. And I just want people to be proud to be an American and get behind it and these are troubled times but American will get over it and things will get better.
Sophie: It’s just a way of remembering all the good things about the country. You have to think positive not negative.
Troy: Now, Sophie, we talked about “I’m Alive” and it sounds like Michael played most of the riffs on there. Are there any one of the songs on the CD that just came out that you played a lot of the lead on?
Sophie: Well like my dad said, we always played it back and forth and sometimes you’ll hear both of us solo on the same song.
Michael: The way to tell is I’m always predominantly in the right speaker and Sophie is predominantly in the left speaker and just like when we’re on stage I’m on the right side, she’s on the left side. So you see I’m the right winger and she’s the left winger.
Troy: Now you’ve got another song on here. There’s quite a few, like I said at the beginning, I’ve listened to quite a few times all the way through just back to back. “I’m Flying” — what’s the motivation or the message behind that song?
Michael: Well “I’m Flying” is totally different. It was written for a documentary about flying about aerial acrobatics which I did not get incidentally.
But then with the connection to all things military, then people kind of took it in a different context. So now this weekend we’re starting to work on a video for it. And we’re using all the footage from the Air Force and from the Navy, and taking it into that context, which I think is just great. It was originally written about this documentary but it’s become something else.
Troy: You’re working on something more. Now looking back in your biography it looks like you are also Canadian is that right?
Michael: Yes. We go back and forth between both countries, between our beloved Florida and cold Canada.
Troy: There you go. Well if we ever link up make sure you bring some Molson XXX with you and some good beer from Canada.
Michael: Oh no, I don’t drink that. I’ll have a Bud.
Troy: There we go. Well, kind of looking back you’ve had kind of ups and downs I talked about. You call yourself a self professing junkie, you started playing guitar when you were very young — about eleven years old, is that right?
Michael: Yeah.
Troy: And writing music and it sounds like you were just playing some gigs her and there, small time things, just trying to make it until you played at the Molson Park Summerfest, right?
Michael: Yeah.
Troy: Was that pretty much at that point the biggest band you ever played with?
Michael: At that point it was yeah things were going well and I’ll let you continue.
Troy: You know where I’m going right?
Michael: Yeah.
Troy: But then you kind of had this bad incident with a former band member that became probably a turning point in your life to some degree. You mind going into a little detail on that for our listeners?
Michael: Well it was over a girl, of course. The girl who now happens to be my wife now, by the way. He became very jealous and enraged and he came to my house with an ax and broke down the door. And the little bit that I know he came quite well stocked with guns and several rounds of ammunition and he held me hostage for about three hours until eventually the SWAT team did kill him.
And it was extremely derailing and things were happening for me very well musically and it, to be honest, it killed me for a long time. And anyway one thing lead to another and here I am 48-years-old trying again. I don’t know if I’m stupid or just stubborn or maybe both.
Troy: Well you’re as young as you feel and I don’t think that 48 is going to stop you from getting into music that’s for sure. In addition it looks like you also had a bout with cancer is that correct?
Michael: Yeah I was just sort of getting over the first one and then I got cancer. And that derailed me for another few more years. And then you know my wife got pregnant and we had children and then I had to make a little money.
All my friends who were musicians they couldn’t even buy a car and I had to make a little money and I got a business and I was lucky I did good in business. I did well and now I’m back. Frankly, I feel like the last 30 years are just, kind of close my eyes and I’m where I left off 30 years ago.
Troy: And that persistent daughter of yours that wanted to learn how to play guitar.
Michael: The little pain in the butt.
Troy: She kept pushing you and she restarted that playing it sounds like.
Michael: Yeah I didn’t want her to play but.
Sophie: When I was growing up my dad he always said to my brother and I, “Kids whatever you do, don’t be a musician,” over and over again.
When I was about 15 I decided I think it’s time for me to play and I said, “Dad, I want to learn how to play the guitar,” and he said, “No.”
And I kept saying that and eventually he gave in.
C.J.: Hey, Michael, C.J. here, and Sophie, my question is, again I love the CD as well I listen to it at work as I’m sitting there doing my patriotic duty. I guess my question is this is really good quality music here and I guess I wander why just give it away.
Michael: Because I think especially I Believe in America I think this is the time. Listen if the songs on the radio we’re going to be paid, OK. But we want to get it out there. We want to get out to as many people as humanly possible. And we think that people really need to hear a positive message.
Sophie: Yeah and music is something that brings people together. It’s a gift that gives us enjoyment and how can you put a price on that.
C.J.: Yeah, it’s true. I’m a music lover. I’ve been in music my entire life and so when the Internet came out and Napster hit back in the day, it couldn’t been any better for me. Now are you guys involved in any type of UFO stuff where you can go out directly and tell this message to the troops?
Michael: Not at the moment, but we certainly would love to be. If anyone is listening, we would certainly love to do it.
C.J.: What about tours and things like that? Are you going around to military bases, or just going on tour at all?
Michael: Not at the moment, but we’re hoping to get that together now. The first thing is to launch the CD, and now try to get some publicity for it, then hopefully launch a tour. We’re hoping to go out there in the late spring.
C.J.: I’ll have to send you some information. One of the other bands we had on wrote a song that was kind of dedicated to the military, and I sent them a lot of information about how to get into the USO tours that go from base to base. So, I’ll have to make sure to send you that, as well, because I think a lot of Soldiers would really enjoy and get a kick out of you guys live.
Michael: Well, thank you for that. But I’ve got to tell you, we sent to the Army and they gave us absolutely no response whatsoever.
C.J.: Well that’s typical.
Michael: Yeah.
[laughs]
Michael: We sent to the Canadian Army, because the Canadians are in Afghanistan as well, and this major sent us back. My wife is probably going to yell at me for this, but basically he said that it’s a negative message, and the Soldiers don’t want to hear that type of thing. And I just thought it was ridiculous. Everybody who goes to war knows they there’s a chance they might die there, you know?
C.J.: Oh, absolutely.
Michael: But they wanted nothing to do with it. So.
C.J.: Wow, that’s amazing. It almost sounds as if, I think at times many of our leadership in the military, and it sounds like in the Canadian military, as well, they tend to be out of touch with those of us on the ground here who are doing the fighting and dying.
Troy: Yeah, and I can say the Canadian military, the infantry are phenomenal fighters. They were, of course, in Afghanistan and I met some over there and actually Scott Masterson, who you probably heard on the show before, I’ve working very close with him on a documentary about those who had just come back from Edmonson and previewed it for the unit he was with.
And they actually have been inviting him back now. He’s going to go back to do another screener of the movie with them and the general of the western armed forces, or something. Someone pretty high up in the Canadian military. They want their high commanders to see this film, and so I bet there’s interest there. It’s probably going to be sent to the Army to step on the wrong people and hit a road block.
C.J.: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, my concern though is the American Army. My concern is for America, not Canada really. I’m not trying to insult the Canadians. I think my record is… These problems that we talk about if you’ve heard this may be addressed to France, but they’re problems that the whole world experiences. But it’s really skewed to America.
Troy: Yeah. Now, as you put together or look into — I don’t know, Sophie, exactly how old you are — if you are still in school or not. You mentioned next spring, are you looking to hold off until about summertime before you set any dates in tour?
Sophie: Well, I still am in school, but we’re just kind of playing it by ear now, seeing what I can do while still in school. If things pick up really heavily then, well I guess there goes education.
[laughs]
Sophie: So you can be a musician, or you can be educated.
[laughs]
Sophie: No. And it’s bad because I can’t even read music, so now I can’t read regular books as well.
[laughs]
Man 2: See, I told her, never be a musician. Last thing you should do. See what happens?
Troy: Are you in college? You’re not in high school, are you?
Sophie: No, I’m in my second year of college.
Troy: Oh, OK. Alright, well, you know we have our MilBloggers Conference you can see at the beginning that’s coming up April 24th to 25th, or 25th, 26th, something like that. It’s the ultimate. You get down to Virginia or DC in that time frame we would love to see you down there, because we’ve had from time and time again where a whole bunch of MilBloggers get together and write about a certain topic, the interest generated by that is worldwide and immediate.
Michael: We would love to.
C.J.: We can get it to where you guys can play a song, shoot.
Michael: We would love that.
Troy: You guys are more than invited to come down for that and I know we would love to see you with everyone else who’s going to be there. And you’re doing a great thing, standing behind the scenes with Michael and Sophie. You guys are putting it out, and we’re going to keep plugging the music because you know I think I’m going to upload one or two more songs so you can have more taste there. But the entire album is just phenomenal. And it speaks strongly to the military, but it doesn’t matter. The guitar playing and the music and lyrics, you guys just did a phenomenal job. And I think you guys are going to go a long way, and I hope we catch you somewhere.
Michael: Thank you very much, Troy, thank you.
Sophie: Thank you.
Michael: Thank you, C.J.
Sophie: We really appreciate it.
C.J.: Thank you both. Alright, well again we’ve been talking with Michael Darwin’s Theory. We’ve been talking with Michael and Sophie from the band and we appreciate you guys coming. Don’t forget to check out their website, michaeldarwinstheory.com, and get their new CD, I Believe In America for free. Yes, they’re giving it away. I know we’ve got a lot of troop supporters in here that send care packages and letters to our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So, why not download a copy and burn it on a CD and send it to those guys as well over there, so they’ve got some kick ass music to listen to while they’re off out there not only keeping our country safe but the world safe. Thanks again to Michael and Sophie. You’re welcome back any time.
Michael: Thank you very much, guys.
Sophie: Thank you.
C.J.: You guys take care.
Michael: Thank you. Talk to you later.
Troy: Bye.
C.J.: Alright, well, we’re going to do something that we’re starting tonight. Oh, crap, no we’re not. Go ahead and…
Troy: Yeah we are, aren’t we?
C.J.: I don’t think I did the, I didn’t upload the intro.
Troy: Oh, for the book? I see something up there.
C.J.: Yeah, maybe I did.
[laughs]
Troy: I see tags for Tom and March.
C.J.: Yeah, that one but I had an intro for it that I didn’t upload yet. Anyways, well, we’ll just, like we talked about we finally worked out a deal. Last week we had the American storyteller on the show and we’re now authorized to air some of their shows. The American storyteller is just a very motivational guy.
Typically we’re going to start doing this at 7:00 central hour, 8:00 eastern hour of the show. It’s kind of a quick break, they’re about four minutes long. And what I wanted to start with was the one they gave me the idea, it’s a great story about the Bataan Death March. It’s the American storyteller, and we’re going to have this as a weekly thing from now on. And so we’ll be right back on the other side of this. It’s about four minutes, but my gosh, it’s such a great story, and I’m just going to sit here and listen to it.
[audio segment]
Narrator: They were young farm boys from all over America. They were volunteers during the second World War. Big, strong, strapping young men who had seen little of the world off the farms and ranches where they had grown up. They were handpicked and under the direction of Colonel Henry Mucci. They would be trained as elite rangers, and sent half way around the world on one of, if not the, daring rescues of World War II.
They would raid a POW camp far behind enemy lines, and liberate the American survivors of the Bataan Death March. Colonel Mucci was the hot headed son of an Italian American horse trainer. A martial arts expert and former boxer, he was pound for pound perhaps the strongest, fastest, smartest, most agile man in the world. It all started just hours after Pearl Harbor.
The Japanese attacked the Philippines. American forces had long been stationed there but were not adequately equipped to fend off an attack of such mega proportion. Their left World War I weapons and artillery were little match for the seemingly endless fighting resources of the empire of Japan. After several months of hard fighting, the American defenders, malnourished and basically out of ammunition and supplies would become prisoners of war.
They would be marched some 60 miles north of the botanic peninsula. The POW camps well in the interior, the march would then become known as the Bataan Death March. The prisoners, already malnourished, were sick with malaria and dysentery. Any prisoners who were helping or being helped, any prisoner who could not move under his own power was murdered on the side of the road.
So many were executed that the Japanese stopped shooting them, so as to save ammunition. Instead, they decapitated them with swords or bayoneted them through the heart. Unspeakable atrocities would only continue after the survivors of the march made it to the POW camps. At one of the camps, the American POWs were herded into trenches, doused with gasoline, and lit on fire.
Films seized from the Japanese would bring home the horrors of war and the torture inflicted on POWs. Americans were outraged, and it became obvious that it was time to do something.
Colonel Mucci’s men were the men for the job. With the help of the legendary Alamo Scouts and Filipino fighting guerillas, Colonel Mucci’s rangers were pressed into clandestine action far behind enemy lines. They had but 72 hours to get in and get out.
As zero hour and nightfall approached, the rangers skidded on their bellies across dried out rice paddies, to a ditch just across the road from the camp. A shot to take out the guard resulted in a barrage of gunfire with bullet flying in every direction. Imagine the look on the faces of these men who had endured three years as POWs as the biggest Soldiers they had ever seen stormed the front gates.
“Are you a Yank,” one said. “You’re damn right I am, and I’m here to get you out.” Twenty-two minutes after the first shot, 200 Japanese guards were dead, and all 513 surviving POWs were on their way to freedom. Those who couldn’t walk were taken by oxen and cart. By dawn, the mile-long column of rangers and former prisoners had made it back across enemy lines.
Several weeks later, returning to a hero’s welcome, the former POWs sailed under the Golden Gate Bridge on the S. S. General Anderson. As they deboarded in San Francisco, they got down on their hands and knees and kissed American soil. From somewhere behind the radio, with the music of Johnny X, I’m The American Storyteller.
C.J.: Oh, sorry about that. Thanks. “The American Storyteller” is brought to you by the employees of the VAMortgageCenter.com. VAMortgageCenter.com is the sponsor of YouServed. You can go there for any of your VA mortgage needs. Troy? Hello.
Troy: How about I take myself off mute.
C.J.: Oh, OK.
Troy: I’m telling you, we are a mess tonight.
C.J.: Well it’s not every day we get to take a break during the show. I went down and had to make myself some toast real quick. Emily doesn’t feed me anymore during the show because she said I just let my food get cold.
Troy: Yep. Well, I don’t know. I’m not going to say anything. I don’t want to get you in trouble.
C.J.: Actually that’s something we haven’t done in a long time over the phone.
Troy: “Bring in the wife” thing, or what?
C.J.: Yeah, we haven’t done the “let’s bring on the wife” thing.
Troy: I’ve got a couple of things I want to chat about before we get to that. Number one, I want to remind everyone that, yes, if you can make it, if you can be there, Washington, D.C., is the place to be in April.
C.J.: Absolutely.
Troy: April 24th and 25th. Is that the right date? Well the 24th is a night thing and it’s kind of optional. The day of the 25th is the actual conference. If you can be there…What in the world was that?
C.J.: I’m sure Emily will tell you.
Troy: OK, I don’t know, Tom. It sounded like a pig ran through your room or something. It was like a squealing pig. Anyway, you are in Alabama. I don’t know.
C.J.: It’s just kinfolk.
Troy: Yeah, I know. I got family down there too. But that’s the place to be, if you can be there. It’s not just for Milbloggers. It is for people that read MilBlogs, like MilBlogs, whatever. But if you read MilBlogs regularly, you have a chance to meet all of us in person, not that’s really a big deal. Maybe meeting Matt from Blackfive would be a big deal. We don’t want to even be around him in the same room.
But the rest of us are just plain old dudes and chicks that just write our MilBlogs and people just happen to read us. So that is definitely the place to be on April 25th. The other thing I want to talk about C.J., I don’t know if you saw it today or not?
C.J.: Yeah, we’re going to be there from the 23rd through the 26th though.
Troy: I’m going the morning of the 24th. I won’t be there the 23rd.
C.J.: Well you’re in luck then.
Troy: You’re talking about going the 23rd. I don’t know why you’re trying to go there on a Thursday night. But I’m going in the morning of the…
C.J.: The tickets are cheaper.
Troy: Oh. See for me, it wasn’t.
C.J.: Oh, OK.
Troy: One thing I want to talk about is a thing that happened up in Michigan. Did you hear about this 93-year-old man, World War II vet?
C.J.: No, I did not.
Troy: It is going to just make your heart bleed.
C.J.: Oh! I think I know what you are talking about.
Troy: 93 years old froze to death inside his house, World War II Vet.
C.J.: That’s right.
Troy: World War II vet as you know are dying at very fast rate daily. This guy had dies probably about two weeks ago, I guess and was just frozen to death in his house. They could tell by the autopsy and everything that he had a very painful, slow painful death.
C.J.: Wow.
Troy: it was all because of the electric company that installed power-limiting devices. He had more than a thousand dollars in unpaid bills. Now this is when the weather in Michigan of all places. About 90 miles from Detroit, extremely cold, his wife died a couple of years ago, had no children, there in Michigan by himself.
Lived in the home 50 to 60 years they put this limiter on there because he had four months of unpaid bills and it restrict the power and it blew. If it goes to high, it blows as a fuse so it turns off the power, froze to death.
We talk about stimulus, we talk about $25 million in ATV trails, whatever, and a couple hundred million dollars to prevent FTD’s and all this kind of stuff. And everyone wants to talk about this mess.
Yet, we have guys who are no less than a veteran and a hero, that the guys coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan today. If anything more World War II is defiantly a lot more, freezing to death in their house because the electric never was paid.
C.J.: Yup.
Troy: It just when you listen to songs like Michaels, I Believe in America.” he talked about a song of hope, and you know things are going to turn around, and power of people. Stories like this just turn your stomach that stuff like that can happen.
C.J.: Yeah, I remember when I first heard about that initially the thing that goes to your mind. I guess something that I still think about is you know the electric company don’t typically on a whim turn off electricity, usually takes quite a bit of time.
I hope the media keeps digging into this to find out what the circumstances were. But I mean I’m sure if anybody had gone to a neighbor, or friend or a published saying hey, “Were about to cut off the power of this World War II veteran.”
There are ways to fix that, and were talking about a 93-year-old man here, it’s not like he can just go out and get himself a job for a few weeks. I just wonder if they jump the gun on it.
Troy: Well, listen to this they say after four months of bills, So City Electrified Power they didn’t contact him face to face to notify him of the device or how it works. They left their policies to leave a note on the door.
C.J.: Oh Gees, yea.
Troy: But his neighbors said he rarely, if ever left the house when it was cold, he never came out. It tripped and it was suppose to reset, but it never reset. 93 years old, they found his oven door was open; he was trying to heat off that and everything else. We’re talking about a low of nine degrees below zero there at this time.
But yeah, they left it on his door, and not even, you know, that’s customer service 101 especially if you’re doing something like that. You can at least tell the person what is going on. I think they’ll have a speechless policy…
C.J.: They don’t even knock in my experience they just stick the thing on the door. I remember when we were in, where were we in California. They will just stick the thing on the door they won’t even talk to you. They don’t even knock.
Troy: They probably don’t want to be confirmation, have somebody go off on them or something.
C.J.: But you know, in Texas they should do what we do in Texas, you go there armed with a flack vest on your good to go.
Troy: Yes, yes and in Colorado to if animals set out. In Colorado, you come in the wrong house; you go away as the guy did the other day.
So let me ask you this, C.J. Qhat is your thoughts on this judge down in Guantanamo that is refusing to hold a trial of the USS Cole bombing suspect?
C.J.: My hero, one of the few judges I probably will defend with my very life. You know we were talking about the USS Cole. We’re talking about seven, eight, no nine years ago almost. Oh no, a little over eight years. It happened in December of 2000. I guess there’s a lot of feedback because it’s going to the mic and then…
Troy: OK.
C.J.: Emily’s got the speaker on.
Troy: Is she talking to you?
C.J.: Yeah, anyway but were going to do “let’s bring in the wife” thing. You know, I’m getting in trouble again, back to this. You know this guy’s been sitting there eight year. This guy that’s on trial is the entire reason I went into the field I’m in right now.
For those that don’t know I work in counterterrorism, and it’s because of the USS Cole. I remember the bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, the Khobar Tower Barracks and all of that. Sitting back going,” my gosh what’s going on what are we going to do about this, we launched a few missiles in the desert of Afghanistan and then the USS Cole bombing hit. I said, “That’s enough. I want to do something about this.”
And now we got a commander in chief who is basically the authority over these prisoners because he is the commander in chief and these are military tribunals’ taking place. So he’s the head dude and he’s telling these guys oh no hang on, we haven’t had enough time to look at these cases.
It’s only been eight years so were going to suspend all, this is what we talked about last week.
Troy: Yeah, we did. We did. I don’t mean to get on a rampage about that so much.
C.J.: Oh I know but…
Troy: He hasn’t had a lot of time because he used to be president. Everyone else had a lot of time he just hasn’t had a lot of time.
C.J.: Actually, so I’m glad this judge did that and I hope it’s something other judges in the military follow through on for exactly for what you just said. We had plenty of time; you know we just didn’t start these trials a week ago.
Troy: Well apparently the Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell stated he will comply, this judge will comply. And I don’t know the moralities of it but I think he would have to, because President Obama is the commander in chief, he’s in the chain of command.
If he’s given an executive order there pretty much saying in that he’ll comply, he has no choice. I don’t know all that legal mambo jumble stuff I’m not a lawyer not even close to being one. But I don’t know you see Jim, you think he did this as a statement; pretty much knowing he’s ending his career?
C.J.: You know, that’s a good way to end your career to make that kind of statement. We’re talking about keeping the lives of America safe.
Troy: Yup.
C.J.: Why are we going to spend — here we are approving an $820 billion stimulus and were worried about money. Yet we want to spend another three months housing, feeding and protecting this guy. And that’s more money were going to be spending. I rather just try him. Hopefully — I can’t say hopefully — he may be found innocent, for all I know. If he’s found guilty we can kill the guy and save more money.
Troy: I’ll save it, I’ll supply the bullet and they don’t even have to worry about paying for that. They can put that back in the stimulus package.
C.J.: Yeah.
Troy: I got a full…
C.J.: You know how much money we could save in this country if we just started killing all the violent criminals, I mean just get it over with.
Troy: I’m with you. By authority it’s a could case it’s got a lot of news spotted today I don’t know if it’s all for nothing. But it’s forcing, but if they do force him to change it I’m sure he’s written his retirement order right there, by doing what he did.
C.J.: Well if he gets pushed out I’m going to try to get him on our show.
Troy: I think that would be great. Now I’m going to ask you about something else that’s going on today CJ if you heard about this. It’s about the Army deserter in Germany are good friends Germany and the specialist Andre Shepherd?
C.J.: yes, the guy with the book?
Troy: I don’t know if he wrote a book, but he’s living high on the hog in Germany. Being hosted by a couple of peace activist who are paying a monthly siphon and all that kind of stuff.
C.J.: That’s a different guy.
Troy: Yeah, he’s a 31-year-old former mechanic, got a 6.O first aviation forward time and he is a bed, bank account, cell phone, friends and he hangs out in Germany trying to get a silo. I don’t know the rules of Islam I’m not that smart in that area. I don’t know if you do. But why would an American seek asylum in Germany?
C.J.: Well, it is the same reason that Americans are trying to seek asylum in Canada. They think that their government is a danger to them. They make up these false things about if I go back, I’m going to get killed and they are seeking political asylum. They are afraid of retribution by their by their government because they broke a contract they signed. They don’t want to get deported.
Troy: Well, I guess that makes sense. The bad thing is he’s just rubbing it in everyone’s face. Telling media interviews that he’s having the time of his life eating bratwurst in Germany.
[laughter]
C.J.: Yeah, probably a skinhead too.
Troy: No, he’s definitely the opposite. He’s not a skinhead. He’s a young African-American man, not young. He’s 31 years old.
C.J.: Oh.
Troy: Am I being politically correct or what? And trust me people what you just heard me say was probably the first and only time you’ve heard me say that. I don’t even know what led me to say that. But he is a black Soldier and 31-years-old. A mechanic. He just decided he wanted to go back to Iraq.
Like you said, there is a contract there. The old, defend my country against enemies foreign and domestic, listen to my chain of command, do what my commander-in-chief says. I don’t know why people think they can break that contract without any retribution or outcome there.
C.J.: Yeah, the one I was talking about. I’m trying to find it here. There was another of these deserters, Joshua Keyes. I don’t know if you heard of him.
Troy: Oh, yeah. He’s the one in Canada, right?
C.J.: Yeah, he’s the one in Canada now. He wrote a book that he just put out. Apparently, inside the book in media interviews he’s said all of this stuff that is completely untrue about the reality of the military. For example, he says…
Troy: IBW? [laughs] I’m sorry. What was that?
C.J.: [laughs] He talks about how, in these interviews, how from basic training on, they talk about the fact that they train Soldiers that all Arabs or all Muslims are terrorists. As a matter of fact, here is the quote from this interview he did with ABC, “You say the training,” and this is the reporter here quote, “You say the training that you were told that all Muslims are terrorists; that all Muslims are responsible for 911. Were people actually saying that to you specifically?
Joshua responds, “Yes and then I got it to its term that instead of being, what would you say not guilty until proven guilty. I would say they are guilty until they are proven innocent just all Muslims. To us all Muslims are terrorists. That is the why we were taught and that is the why we conducted business. Now tell me, Troy, you are still in the military, have you ever been taught all Muslims are terrorists? Have you ever gotten that training?
Troy: Absolutely, positively, not.
C.J.: I’ve never gotten that training. As a matter of fact, I’ve had training that specifically said we need to be careful that we don’t label all Muslims as terrorists. Part of our EO training actually, as a matter of fact.
Troy: In the first Gulf War, I remember when I was there I went into the country right after Saddam invaded Kuwait. Our training was on getting our self ready, getting our stuff ready and getting in the country. We relied heavily on the people of Saudi Arabia and the Muslims. That is the home of Mecca for them to say.
When I went back in Afghanistan, the train up for that in 2006; that is not discussed. Absolutely not. It is not even a thought in someone’s head to say something like that.
C.J.: Yep.
Troy: And it sure is not in any PowerPoint or official curriculum. It may be someone speaking their opinion wrongfully when they are maybe giving a class; maybe they say that. Just like what that EO representative saying what she said to Arthur. Her opinion what is and isn’t racism. But it is not an official thing by any means.
C.J.: Yeah. And the other thing about this guy Keyes. He said that 99 percent of the military enlisted because they were poor and had no other options. So. I love these deserters. And I’m telling you we are at war and it is legal by the Manuel for Courts Martial that in a time of war deserters can be shot. I really think we need to bring back the shooting squads. That’s just…
Troy: I am a 100 percent for capital punishment.
[laughter]
Troy: You brought up something earlier, C.J., about; we’ve still got some time left here. You talked about the Army suicide, which, of course, have risen and you sat in on that. You said the reason why is the economy and a couple of other things. That kind of plays into two things. One, you had brought up, actually, awhile back on the show before Greg was our co-host and it was called in, about what my opinion was if the economy went bad and at that point it hadn’t gone bad yet, was going to bring enlistments up.
I didn’t think it would. You thought so and it looks like that is what is happening. So the economy definitely has impacted that. Another thing is the amount of suicides among civilians. High-profile in the last couple of days, California and Ohio in the last few days alone, entire families wiped out.
C.J.: Oh, yeah.
Troy: One of them a direct contribution to the wife and the husband both lost their jobs in a hospital in California. Killed the entire family.
C.J.: The thing is the military is on top of suicide statistics. We do this annually. Whereas in the civilian populace it is only done; we’re four years behind. So what we are doing is we are comparing 2008 statistics to 2005 statistics and the 2005 statistics increase the number of civilians killed to 19.2 or 19.5, excuse me. The 2008 statistics increase ours to 20.2. Now they’ve still got four years left. Of course the 2005 statistics are for the year 2007. There is still some climbing that needs to be done on the civilian side. It does not take into account that the economy and everything else going on in the civilian workforce, all these jobs that are being lost, 1.2 million jobs.
So, I find it interesting that the mainstream media is so interested in the military suicide rate. Look at, I’m looking at this article on the front page of The Army Times this week, “Stressed To Death.” It talks about recruiters and the fact that…
Troy: Recruiter suicide, yeah.
C.J.: …committing suicide and I want to talk about something. Those guys; recruiters are some of the hardest working people in the Army. In my opinion, the hardest working people in the Army are the cooks, the mechanics, and the recruiters. They are the ones that don’t get any credit.
Troy: I think you might want to change that a little bit. I don’t know what you are seeing C.J. but there ain’t many cooks left in the Army.
C.J.: Well, that’s true.
Troy: It’s mostly contracted.
C.J.: So, now we are down to mechanics and recruiters.
Troy: Yeah, yeah. Well, recruiters, I would throw in there drill sergeants. I’ve had a lot of friends on the trail. That is an extremely…it is right up there with recruiting. Back in my day, a few years back when I was active duty, at the mid-level NCO career, when you got about the eight to 13-year mark, you were either going to be on the trail or be in recruiting for several years. You had to check that block. Those were very demanding, stressful…
C.J.: They are. I’ll tell you. I went on a recruiting trip when I was a staff sergeant and it was a 60-day recruiting assistance thing. I went to Arizona, I’m sorry, New Mexico, Albuquerque. One of the things, these guys work really hard. But I’ll tell you what, the situations, the circumstances that they work under are practically impossible.
A lot of this, we talk about leadership and I think when it comes to recruiting command there is so many unrealistic expectations placed upon our recruiters and they really do… Granted, there are some dirt bags in there that don’t want to be there. But for the most part these are hard-working NCOs. But the thing that I noticed and I want to give you a quick anecdote and then we’ll take this caller here.
When I was in Albuquerque, oh, that’s my wife. When I was in Albuquerque, I remember being in the recruiting station there and I went to use the restroom. I went into the restroom and there is a desk set up in there and they have a telephone lined into that. There is no chair or anything; well there is a chair and everything. But there is basically an office set up inside this recruiting station.
I came out of there after using the bathroom and, I was well hydrated by the way in case anyone was wondering. I asked, “You guys must be pretty dedicated. You don’t want to miss a phone call. You’ve got everything you need in the latrine there.”
“Oh no, that is Staff Sergeant so and so. He hasn’t made mission two months straight so his office is now in the latrine until he comes up to mission.” Can you imagine what that does to a person’s psyche? That was insane!
Troy: Yeah, in the recruiting field, they call it from hero to zero in one month. If you roll a doughnut, that is zero enlistments, you could have a year’s worth of exceeding your goal every month and get all kinds of accolades, and then the 13th month you roll a zero. You’re a piece of crap, and they’re threatening your NCOER and everything else.
It is a very demanding job, not accounting for you’re not around the military. You’re around all civilians. You’re in a civilian community. Your family thinks you’re not going to be deployed, you’re going to be home more, and all that kind of stuff. Then they come to really realize that you put in crazy hours: 60-, 80-, or 90-hour weeks.
C.J.: Yes, it’s crazy. We’ve got Super Mom on the phone.
Troy: There’s some serious feedback. It’s going on.
C.J.: Wait. Where’s the phone? Oh. [laughs] My dad, before he retired from the Navy, was in charge of recruiting for the southeast area — Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. There was a time when I was getting ready to go into recruiting. I had volunteered for it, so I talked to him. One of the things he told me was, “Don’t do it. Don’t do it.”
I don’t know where that comes from. I don’t have a speaker on. Do you have a speaker?
Troy: Are you talking to me? It happened when you unmuted your wife there.
C.J.: OK. Here, let me do this. I wish all wives had a mute button like that. That’s cool.
Troy: [laughs] So do I. So do I. Do you know that you’re in trouble now? Yeah, you got the look. I know you did.
C.J.: Ow!
Troy: And you got the hit.
C.J.: I got the wadded up paper. No, that was a gloved hand. Anyway, the bottom line is he did everything he could to talk me out of it. This is what he tells me. After 32 years, he retired. He says, “The reason I retired early is because I was in charge of these NCO’s fate. If they didn’t make mission, I had to give them negative evaluations. I hated doing that, so I got out of the recruiting field and I retired.”
I know you’re away from your wife. We haven’t done this in a long time, and I’m sure Emily’s got a lot to yell at me about.
[audio segment]
Announcer: Strong, able-bodied, resolute, gallant, hard as nails. These words have often been used to describe men of strong stature and of independent spirit. But for people like C.J., it’s his wife that makes him look good. Let’s bring in the wife.
[end segment]
C.J.: [laughs] So let’s bring in the wife, Emily. How are you doing? Super Mom? Oh, let me unmute you.
Troy: [laughs] You’ve got to unmute her.
C.J.: [laughs] Oh, yeah.
Troy: Hi, Emily. [laughs]
Emily Grisham: You are just wasting my time now.
C.J.: Hey, Emily. I’ll talk to you. How about if I interview you because you talk to him all the time?
Emily: You know what that sound was earlier when he first said, “Let’s bring on the wife”? He slid the phone across the floor, and it whacked me in the face.
Troy: What’s your face doing on the floor?
Emily: I was laying down.
Troy: Oh.
C.J.: One of only two positions.
Troy: [laughs] OK. C.J., I don’t know why you have such bad feedback when you unmute her. She sounds fine. Emily sounds great. You have some terrible feedback. It must be her phone is picking you up. I think her phone must be picking up your voice.
C.J.: Yeah. She’s calling on the regular phone line, and she’s in the same room with me. I’m calling on Skype, so you get to hear it twice.
Troy: Yeah. But anyways, I don’t know. I’m just joking talk about being a muter. Emily and C.J., you can talk about whatever you want. I’ll jump in or chime in to stir stuff up.
C.J.: [laughs] I don’t think I need you to help me to stir stuff up. [laughs] Here’s a good one. Let’s do this. If any of you out there have questions for how and why Emily puts up with me, why don’t you call in, interview Emily, and ask the tough questions of her? 347-202-0679, and I think that would be fine. Let the audience here stir up trouble for us.
Troy: Hey, I do have a question for Emily, though. I want to know where you’re dragging up these old pictures to put on Facebook, which is hilarious.
Emily: [laughs] I was bored, and I brought them up.
Troy: You thought, “I’m just going to embarrass C.J. by putting up his Billy Ray Cyrus hair pictures.”
C.J.: Oh, my gosh. Have I missed something?
Emily: [laughs] You know, as much as you’re on computer you’d think you would catch that. But in defense of my husband, I have to say it’s not a mullet. That’s not a mullet haircut.
Troy: Really? I know mullets. It kind of looks like one. [laughs]
Emily: It really isn’t a mullet. It truly is not.
Troy: So has he always had, let me ask you; has he always had a seriously receding hairline?
Emily: Yes he has.
C.J.: It is not a receding hairline. See, I don’t have a forehead; I have a five-head.
Troy: Yes, you are right. It is not receding. It has already receded.
C.J.: Yes, I was born with it.
Emily: Yes, he was born with it. You should see his baby pictures. He looks exactly like he does now.
[laughter]
Emily: Big head, big nose. Everything.
C.J.: Thanks.
Troy: Exactly.
C.J.: Big nose!
Troy: This is his family.
Emily: Well, on a baby it is huge.
[laughter]
Troy: On babies, a lot of things are huge. But anyway…
Emily: That’s true.
C.J.: Well, you know what they say about big noses?
Emily: No, what do they say?
C.J.: They have big burgers in them.
Troy: There you go.
Emily: OK.
Troy: But anyways, Emily, so he has been on the road a lot and you’ve been having to hold down the fort. How is that going down in Alabama?
Emily: It always goes smoother when he’s gone to be honest with you.
Troy: No dirty underwear to pick up? And no dirty dishes to pick up?
Emily: Well, my house, it stays clean for a full week when he is gone. It really does.
Troy: I know. My wife is the same way. I’m on the road every week, Monday to Friday. If I get to work a week from home and if I get to do two weeks from home like I did over the holidays; if I’m home two weeks, her and the kids are going, “When are you going on the road again?”
Emily: Yeah.
[laughter]
Troy: I don’t know where else to go.
C.J.: This is one of the things I don’t think many people… I always find it funny when I’m on a plane and I’m next to somebody. They are coming home from a business trip or something. They have been gone two days or whatever and we talk. “Yeah, I’ve been gone about two days and it’s the first time I’ve been away.”
Then you see the kids and the wife at the airport. They are just so excited to see their husband come back.
Troy: Like they just came back from a year deployment of something.
C.J.: Yeah, I know. But one of the great things about the military I think is, we get that opportunity. At least that is the way we treat it, I think. Every time I come home it’s like I get to date my wife all over again. We don’t get tired of each other because when we start getting tired of each other I have to leave. It is almost like we rekindle our relationship every time I come back. That is one of the great things about the military. If more Soldiers would look at it that way as well as more wives. Because some of the younger couples, it’s very difficult especially these days when your husband is deploying a lot.
But if you just kind of look at it as an opportunity to start dating again when you get back. But you don’t start dating before he gets back. That’s the key.
Troy: That’s the key. That is right. Let me…I’ve got a question for Emily here. We are kind of taking about advice and things to look for. Emily, he is gone a lot. He has his hands in a lot of different things. He’s involved in a lot of stuff. How do you set aside time for family either just, one, you and him, one on one time or just family time? Do you try to set aside certain times of the week or weekend to do things with just you guys? Quality time with the kids?
Emily: You know, we try to. Usually the weekends we try to do something fun. And it depends on what moods the kids are in if it is working out or not, I guess. Because when he comes home on Saturdays; we’re just normal people. The kids, they don’t listen to us and that makes us upset so they get in trouble as much as any other kids. We try to do fun things on Saturdays but usually it just becomes a ‘we’re going to go out and taunt you’. Is that what it is C.J.?
C.J.: Yeah.
[laughter]
Emily: Yeah, so we are going to go to Dairy Cream Ice Cream and eat it in front of you because you were fighting the whole day. So our son will frequently tell us we have ruined his weekend because of how Saturday was.
[laughter]
Troy: Yeah, they try to do that. Now your kids are still pretty small, right?
Emily: Yeah, we have…
C.J.: Ten, twelve, and seven.
Troy: Well, you are getting into it. Twelve, almost there. I you guys haven’t started hearing it yet.
Emily: She’s been there since she was five.
[laughter]
Troy: Oh, OK. No, I mean; my oldest is 26. My youngest is seven.
C.J.: Troy’s old.
Troy: When they get to be teenagers. Well, yeah, send a picture up here of Emily when she was 15 and I had already had kids and been divorced a few times.
[laughter]
Troy: But when they get into teenage years, the biggest joy you will have is embarrassing the fire out of them. I guarantee it. I know that C.J. can do that. There is no fun…
Emily: Oh, he loves it.
Troy: There’s no fun like the first day of high school, put them on the school bus, C.J., wearing…
C.J.: There’s our 90 second.
Troy: Yep.
Emily: Well, see I know that, C.J. You should tell them what you’re putting me through this weekend, on Sunday.
C.J.: What am I putting you through on Sunday?
Troy: Making her paint or something? Mow the lawn or what?
Emily: [laughs] I already mow the lawn.
C.J.: [simultaneously with Emily] Have I already forgotten what? Oh, the Super Bowl!
Emily: Oh, the Super Bowl!
Troy: Well, yeah.
Emily: He forgot how many people he invited from his office. It started out with like…
C.J.: I invited 20 people to our Super Bowl party.
Emily: on our seafood boil night. Seafood isn’t cheap.
Troy: Oh, you already got the-you announced the menu, too, that it’s a seafood…
Emily: Yeah, it’s a tradition.
Troy: Well, are you hosting any young Soldiers that don’t have a place to watch the game, or are you inviting like other couples and stuff like that?
C.J.: No, I’m being snooty. Only captains and above.
Troy: Man!
C.J.: No, my whole headquarters section.
Troy: Are you inviting your sergeant major, too?
[laughter]
Alright.
Emily: He paid us.
C.J.: Alright, well thanks Emily, and Troy, for digging up my mullets.
Troy: Yep.
Emily: It wasn’t a mullet! I never dated a guy with a mullet.
C.J.: Alright, we’ve got to go. We’ve got ten seconds left. I want to thank Michael Darwin Theory for coming in, our friend Arthur for talking about the EO program, and Troy, thanks again for co-hosting with me.
Troy: Alright, thank you, C.J. Talk to you next…
C.J.: We’ll see you guys next week and we’re going to end, actually, with Kim Cameron’s “My Hero” tonight. No, no, I’m sorry, “I Believe in America,” Michael Darwin.
Troy: There we go, yep.
[music]
