[Bump] Fed Up With Stop Loss

May 6, 2009 By CJ
Posted in Uncategorized

UPDATE: I’m bumping this post because we’re all about to get a much needed education from what I’m sure is a well-researched and thoughtful Soldier about how our government works and declares its wars. Stay tuned to the comments. We all desperately need this constitutional tutoring!

But not for the reasons you may think. I’m tired of all the whining Soldiers who haven’t yet received what the media wants you to think are “tour bonuses“. That’s what they’re calling them these days because stop loss money just doesn’t sound cool enough.

The Pentagon has not started complying with a law requiring the payment of monthly bonuses of up to $500 to soldiers forced to remain on active duty beyond their enlistment period, military officials said.

First of all, these Soldiers aren’t being “forced” to stay on active duty. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM signed a contract promising an eight year commitment. Let me repeat that because I don’t think the all caps is enough. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM committed to eight years.

10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE AND RESERVE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL GUARD.

a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight (8) years. Any part of that service not served on active duty must be served in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.

Let me also note here that the emphasis is NOT/NOT mine! It’s actually in bold on the contract itself! Therefore, Soldiers who are stop lossed are NOT/NOT owed extra money. It’s not a “back door draft” as the media and our ignorant politicians want to label it as. How about giving $500 per month instead to those Soldier who have fulfilled their commitment and continue to give their life in service to our nation beyond those eight years!?

Congress is full of a bunch of ignorant civilians who have never served a day in their life, with few exceptions. One look at a contract that EVERY enlisted Soldiers signs will obviously show that there is nothing wrong or unusual about stop loss.

On another note, I realize that in rare cases there are troops that are getting stop lossed AFTER the eight year mark. If that is the case, I understand these types of “tour bonuses”. They only signed up for eight years, they’ve done their time, they deserve to be compensated. However, I could also say that if these Soldiers REALLY want out of the Army, they can sue for breach of contract because they only volunteered for eight years!

I don’t want to hear any more whining about stop loss. It’s a non starter and if you “didn’t know” what you were signing, you’re a bonehead too.

24 Comments »

Army Sergeant

February 23rd, 2009 at 9:03 pm

Short version, as I’m hearing it:

“I’m sick of Congress voting soldiers more money, many of whom were never complaining about their stop loss in the first place. Therefore, I’m going to blame the soldiers because they’re pointing out the Pentagon is holding up cash that they are supposed to get in the middle of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes!”

Mind you, I’d benefit from your proposed plan, as I’m just over the eight year mark. But still, I don’t begrudge these guys their cash.

Donna

February 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 pm

Thank CJ for explaining that to us. I heard that on Fox News today about the bonuses and I was under the impression that these soldiers weren’t getting money due them. If thats the case I do hope the ones that deserve the money do get it.

February 25th, 2009 at 6:01 am

Donna, actually according to the law, ALL stop-lossed Soldiers are ENTITLED to this extra monthly cash by law. I don’t want to give the impression that the law wasn’t meant for them, it was. THAT is my problem with it. If a guy signs up to serve and only does three years active, but the military stop losses him for an additional six months or year, the law says to pay him $500 per month extra even though he’s still within his eight year contractual obligation.

Just wanted to explain myself in case you were confused.

February 25th, 2009 at 6:03 am

Almost Army Sergeant, but I don’t care if they were complaining or not. The simple fact is that you don’t pay people extra money who haven’t been required to go beyond their contractual obligation. Why are we “rewarding” Soldiers who signed a contract to abide by that contract? That’s absurd. That’s like my bank paying me a little extra money to keep paying for my car loan even though I’ve never missed a payment.

Angie

March 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 am

My husband was just stop-lossed after requesting retirement with 20 YEARS of service including 7 years of active duty and several combat tours. 8 months after he came off of a 3 year tour of duty, he was ordered to return to active duty with less than 3 months notice and a week before the birth of our child. The commanders are celebrating the use of the stop-loss policy and there is WIDESPREAD abuse of this policy currently in 2009!! Let’s be respectful of those who have served their time and at least give them this minor bit of compensation for being forced to remain WELL past their original committment.

hawkpilot

March 17th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

I find it both laughable and disheartening when I hear or read about service members attempting to legitimize the refusal of benefits that were legislatively promised to those serving. Unfortunately this is a viral attitude, in one branch in particular, that is excepted as proper leadership views. In my time in Iraq I have seen epic amounts of waste and abuse of spending on sensless items such as flat screen TV’s and of course funding those hapless contractors that only drain resources rather than provide them. It’s also hard to legitimize activation of individual ready reserve soldiers when a clear drawback of forces has been planned and is being intigrated presently. I’ve witnessed the ease at which Iraqi nationals, and enemy combatants receive medical care while there are more than enough examples of service members having to jump through hoops to get the simplest of care. That being said, I’m all for any additional benefits for those serving. It won’t even come close to compensating for a lack of other benefits attached to serving in the military.

DeJesus (MSG)

April 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am

Actually, I understand your ‘pointing-out-the-facts’ on this issue in regards to contractual agreements that are signed with the military, but let me explain what complaints you are hearing about. I reached the end of my (contract) enlistment on October 10th of 2008. I was given my orders for my 12 month deployment on the 3rd of October, 2008. This is a de-facto STOP-LOSS that the military has been abusing more and more through the past several years. I am now being told by personel that I am NOT entitled to the STOP-LOSS money that our wonderful lawmakers have indicated they would make available to soldiers such as myself. This is very dishartening and irritating that we get treated with disrespect on this. I am essentially deployed for a year (or more) for all but one week outside of my contract…and forced to be out in the desert and get shot at against my will because someone in the chain of command decided its time to send me off. So before you run your mouth about how you are tired of soldiers whining about money that has been promised them, try standing in one of our shoes. Are you even military? I am curious if you know how the military ‘REALLY’ works? I have no way out of my situation and to ’sue’ the Army for ‘breach of contract’ is a comment that make me laugh. First, no military JAG or appointed attorney gives a flying crap about your situation, and to get a civilian lawyer involved is just too expensive (on my family income) – and by the time the thing is settled, my tour is up. Maybe you can explaing to this ‘BONEHEAD’ how I am to get back to my family? Or maybe afford to pay bills with my military income when I was forced to leave my civilian job that I had lined up prior to my deployment? I am not the only one being denied the ’stop-loss’ money. There are multiple soldiers in my very own unit that are in the same situation as me. The Army says…you agreed to ‘volunteer’ your current tour and gives no proof of any signed documentation and lies to your face to keep the money out of your bank account. So, somewhere between missions, I am supposed to gather every spec of paperwork and orders I have and also coordinate this with my wife (with a 2yr old and a newborn that I missed her birth because of this) so we can get this fixed? Uh huh. I tried on my end and nearly got an article 15 for losing my cool over them throwing lies in my face! So it is up to my wife now to try and get the money (that we are supposedly entitled to) or try to get me a ticket home. So unless you have experienced what soldiers like me have been put through, don’t act like you know everything. Matter of fact, lets see you sitting on the turret on the lead vehicle of one of my convoys on a hot day in Iraq and see how you feel. STOP-LOSS is a way of the military keeping us deployed PAST our contractual obligations or enlistment. So, EVERY ONE OF US DESERVE THAT COMPENSATION…regardless of what you think.

stigma

April 26th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

I love how that contract is held against soldiers! There I was holding my right arm up reciting a pledge to my nation feeling like it was the best thing I could do for my country. I come to find that same arm taken behind my back and contorted in a way to disable my will. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “If you don’t like the army, do your time and get out.” And in the same breath “You signed up for this.” or “You knew what you were getting into.” Never words to instill pride only to feel helpless. I find it funny that the whining bothers you. What should bother you is the shiny new M4 pointing between your eyes, or perhaps cleaning up one of many suicides that are induced by this policy. It’s amazing what a soldier at the end of there rope thinks about. Would you want to be in a position where the driver of your vehicle would be happy to hit an IED just for you? The idea is to keep our soldiers and their families happy. Instead they are backed into a wall. There are not many who sign up for the crap job apparently there are better things to do then fight for your country. But your right stop-loss and call us all back so we can park our tank in the middle of a shitty farm, and point the 120mm at the kids that walk back and forth to school, as they ask us with the only English they know “When are you leaving.”

PV2 Fritchen

April 30th, 2009 at 9:47 am

What a great day for America. At one time, predatorial contractual traps were excluded to the credit card companies. Now, the government itself is taking advantage of the ignorance of the supposedly honorable men and women in uniform. Take a kid out of highschool, or an inner-city youth, and place that contract before him. Does he understand that he can be held against his will indefinitely for signing that paper? Of course not. Does he understand the intricate legal details in the contract?

Even CJ, who criticizes the soldiers themselves, fails to understand the stop-loss policy! It is not justified by that specific provision in the contract he cited. It was a policy signed into law by Bill Clinton, which states that a soldiers enlistment can be extended until six months after a state of war has ended. That means, eight years-to-indefinite. And by the way, Congress never did actually declare a state of war…

The soldiers I work with do not understand any of this either. In their mind, they are “property” of the government. I try to explain that slavery was abolished and is illegal, but they do not get it. All they know is, they must spend another year in the desert on the other side of the planet, without payments they had been promised by Congress, away from their families against their will under threat of imprisonment or death, to fight a war they can neither understand nor justify. That is how we honor the veterans of today.

And if for once the indignation of it all rises up and spills out from a soldiers heart, we debase them for “whining.”

Let me ask you something else, CJ. You place in bold, that soldiers are not “FORCED” to stay on active duty. As though a stop-loss policy would need to be enacted to prevent a group of “volunteers” from leaving the ranks. As though threats of imprisonment would need to be applied to a group of “volunteers” to maintain their voluntary action. It sure must be odd notions of “force” and “volunteer” you hold.

God bless America…

May 1st, 2009 at 7:21 pm

PV2 Fritchen, I’ll start by asking where the question is that you purported to ask then just made a statement. Hopefully, you’re back in school learning the difference between a statement and a question.

Your entire premise here is flawed. I’m sure you’ve probably gotten your marching orders from IVAW themselves, so I can’t fault you for being just plain wrong. Congress did declare war with Iraq and they did declare war with Afghanistan. So, you’re just plain wrong and everything you say after that sentence holds no merit.

I can’t imagine that a PV2 would know much, though I have met a few who actually sought to educate themselves instead of being forcefed the kind of manure you’re spewing here.

You base your claims on the fact that people who sign up for the military are just plain stupid and ignorant. They can’t read a basic contract. You back up that claim at the outset by also referencing the fact that people are too stupid to read a credit card contract as well.

I see our “honorable men and women in uniform” in a much more positive light. I think that most DO indeed know how to read a contract, but they’re just pissed off because they didn’t think it would happen to them and now they’re stuck. When I joined, I was young and stupid and yet I knew to look at the entire contract first. I asked all sorts of stupid questions, like “what does EO 12333 say?” My recruiters didn’t know, so I didn’t sign my contract until they showed me. Pretty smart for a high school graduate, eh? Maybe the high school I attended – a public school – was more advanced than yours?

Now, quit yer whining and do some research.

May 1st, 2009 at 7:23 pm

Wow, I’ve got ALL the whiners in here lately! I didn’t realize the military produced that many. Guess it’s the entitlement generation finally getting their wakeup call.

May 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

You “see our men an women in uniform in a much more positive light,” though you “can’t imagine a PV2 would know much,” since “few sought to educate themselves much.” And this positive light sheds illumination on the fact that we are “just pissed off because they didn’t think it would happen to them.” It is a shame I am not “back in school learning” to be “pretty smart for a high school graduate” like you.

But while you were busy whining about whining, and insulting my intelligence, I suppose you didn’t take the time to look up the distinction between a formal declaration of war, and the modern AUMF (Authorization of the Use of Military Force).

But don’t listen to me. I am from the entitlement generation, and I didn’t go to a school as advanced as yours.

Keep waving that flag you great American.

May 6th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

Tell you what Private. Why don’t you educate us about exactly what a declaration of war is? Please provide your constitutional support and the exact wording needed for such a “declaration”. Please explain to my feeble mind the difference between a “declaration of war” and “authorization of the use of military force”. I’ll stand by for what is bound to be a rousing educational and entertaining explanation.

RUSMCUSA

May 12th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

War-funding bill to OK retro stop-loss pay

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/05/military_stoploss_supplemental_050409w/

Halleluja for all those who served well beyond 8 and were stop lossed. I served seventeen (17) months past my ETS, ALL months after the 8 year Military Service Obligation (MSO).

Tim Dolan

May 14th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

Ok I have to say something about this. I dont know who you think you are. I did sign up for an 8 year contract. It stated 4 years active and 4 years inactive ready reserve. That means incase you dont get it, that after my 4 years of putting up with Army crap. I get to get out and go to school and not get paid by the Army but my name goes on a list of people to get paid. Now I dont know about you but I’ve been in just over 4 years now and im stop lossed. I have 2 combat tours already so I think I damn sure deserve the extra 500 bucks. I dont know if you have looked at our pay recently but being deployed, as hard as it is(which is most likely harder than whatever it is that you do), does not net you much extra cash. I think i went from 24000 a year to 31000. And with mortars goin off all the time and rockets and small arms fire all the time I deserve whatever they are going to give me. It makes me sick that you could be so critical on what little money we actually get when you obviously are not in and stop lossed and going on your third combat tour. I have seen more in my 22 years of being alive(most notable the last 3 or 4) than you have probably ever seen. So screw you and your complaints, no one gives a crap. Oh and by the way you stupid piece of shit, the only reason I joined was so I could use my GI Bill to help pay for my Yale scholarship. Since obviously smart enough to get accepted there i was smart enough to read my ENTIRE contract. There is not a SINGLE LINE in my contract, which i have right here next to me, that says I have the possibility of being stop lossed. I wish I could line your ass up right next to the insurgents ill be engaging next deployment so I could put you out of all of our misery.

Joe

May 19th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

So, they approved the new war spending bill. I was stop-lossed in 2003 for nearly 13 months……when do I get my reimbursment, does anybody know? Only intelligent responses please.

May 22nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm

Joe,

Do what I have done for almost every week since I first heard about the Stop Loss payment program….search for news snippets all the time using a google search…

I’m sure DFAS and the Army will come up with a way (program) to get it to us…it took approx six months for the Army to get Stop Loss money to the soldiers who are on their pay rolls…so don’t count on it any earlier…

They need a policy first on how to find people and how to pay them,….if you are still in, then that wont be a problem, but if one is out…then that may be a problem…also people of deceased service members might also need to be found…also, my former state of Mi, where I earned the time to count for this program, doesn’t tax military income, but the sate I am in now, does…

I would keep your eyes open for when the program is ready for disbursement…

Also and most importantly, have a copy of discharge orders handy (my discharge order says I was held past my obligation due to no fault of my own (in other words, stop lossed). Find your DD214 as well.

I’m glad I begged (didn’t have too, it was already policy, but NG retards at FT Dix…anyway) my DD214 to say that I was held for 374 days past my contractual obligation…

Now is a good time to get that paperwork ready, and if you dont have it…locate it.

Knowing the Gov….they will only fund this for a year or two to find people….just a hunch…don’t wait.

June 2nd, 2009 at 10:06 pm

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/AdminRequest43)_xml.pdf

The appropriation begins on page 25.

It is only good for active duty time. Reserve component members will not receive credited time for the 90 days they HAD to serve before their stop loss induced ETS (stop loss RC members have to do an additional 90 days inactive reserve time after a stop loss mobilization)…kind of crappy, but ah well.

You can get 500 per month for any 1 day per month on stop loss on active duty.

Deceased members (God rest their soul) will receive the entitlement, through their designated representative.

I am getting $7000 before taxes. I will net about 5 G’s.

Your discharge must have been honorable. In other words, and OTH or General will not cut it.

Good luck…

STPLOSD

June 17th, 2009 at 9:48 am

I really can’t believe what I’m reading here. I had to back up and read the initial post over again.

I am one of the ones that served 8 years ACTIVE duty before getting STOP-LOSSED. You really can’t describe what it feels like to give 8 years of your life to protect your country and then be told that you are not allowed to leave after your term is up.

My seperation date was 30SEP01, Close to 9/11 I interviewed with a company and was offered my dream job. Unbelievable salary, great benefits, this was the job that I worked VERY hard get. I had planned on getting out and starting a new job, and even getting married.

9/11 happened and I was STOP-LOSSED. All of a sudden my plans gone. I was held in for an extra year, in that time I lost the position, the company could hold it for a year, and I received orders to deploy. On top of all that, DFAS screwed up my pay and I wound up not getting paid for several of the months I was STOP-LOSSED.

Since I was the NCOIC, the command had already backfilled my position with a replacement. You ask what I did for those extra months? Pretty much nothing but watch my life go down the tubes.

No amount of money can give me my opportunities back. And 8 years of a great military career was capped off by one stupid policy. My situation was more of an inconvenience, there are others who lost their lives or were injured because of it.

I realize that the initial post was not directed at people like me, but new guys that have only served half of their active duty service commitment. Who cares? They had the guts to leave their family and friends and join the military. That decision alone takes more guts than half of the people in this country have. I applaud you and thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting your lives on the line to protect our freedom.

Your tired of the Soldiers that are whining? Well, I’m tired of people whining about benefits the military receives. I dont think they get paid enough for what they do. If I could donate my share of the “tour bonuses” I would. And maybe I will, but so far I haven’t seen a dime.

June 18th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/06/military_retroactive_stoploss_061509w/

to summarize, the DOD is not “required” to find you…The law says basically you have one year to get the money.

They will probably go to your last known address.

Hopefully people will get the word out.

I served my stop loss time after my 8 yr MSO as well. Did my Reserve unit need me?

HELL NO…I was an NCO and they just promoted shizbag SPC’s to SGT to get more money on deployment.

I call on CJ to get the word out after this becomes law, which it most certainly will…this benefit racks up there with VA benefits.

CJ, will you get the word out to veterans?

June 18th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40121.pdf

a good read to educate yourself about stop loss.

it is on the money.

June 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/06/military_stoploss_allowance_062509w/

It is law now. Read the link and stay tuned.

Thanks to CJ for allowing me to post this on here.

Thanks!

Reese Bishop

July 19th, 2009 at 11:00 am

I have been following every lead I can find on stop loss pay to make sure I know exactly what my husband is required to do in order to claim his portion & also to kepp others updated on what the must do.

I hope nobody minds if I tell our story. First allow me to say that I am not somone who complains about what my roll as a military wife would be & has been. I understood what marrying a soldier meant for me, I knew what I might be called upon to do & endure & I was/am ready, willing & able to step up & do my part. We will celebrate our 5th wedding anniversary on October 7 of this year (this is a second marriage for both of us, I was married for 24 years to my first husband). Yes, I married my husband after 9/11/2001, we starte dating in March, 2001. I am boring you with these details so you know that I definitely did not go into this marriage blindly, Bishop had already done one 12 month tour in Iraq/Kuwait while stationed in Virginia, where we met, he was then transferred to Ft Stewart, GA & I came with him. I would go anywhere he went/goes whether we ever married or not, however, as you know, he did ask me to marry him & I was thrilled to become his wife, so 2 1/2 months before he left for his 2nd TDY to Iraq, I became an Army wife, by then, my husband had already served 17 years in the Army & was due to retire in Sept, 2007. This did not happen of course, due to stop loss. He went back to Iraq for his 3rd tour, this time for a 15 month tour ( I should say that with Desert Storm, he really has had more time in Iraq, but let’s just deal with the recent deployments, the one that we have been together on. Neither of us complained, this was somethingg he had to do & keeping the homefires lit & taking care of things here was something I had to do, nothing was going to change it & having a crappy attitude about it would serve no good purpose. I have such great pride in him for the years of service he has given to this country & when asked (as I often am) why did I choose to marry a soldier, especially at the time I did, the answer is always so easy. I married a man I love who also happened to be a soldier & no matter how many months or years we had to be apart due to his military career & obligations, it is all worth it just to have that man in my life for one second. I will tell you something else about the kind of soldier my husband was & the kind of man he is now that he is finally retired as of March 1, 2009. When he was stop lossed, he was given the chance to stay here in the states & be the NCOIC of Rear D. He declined, saying that there was no way he would allow his soldiers (almost all had been stop lossed) to deploy & not be right there beside them. Talk about a proud moment in a wife’s life, that was way up there on my list of proudest moments.

Now that I have really bored you with all of those facts, I will get to the subject at hand. I had never heard of stop loss until the day he told me it had happened to him (or should I say us, because in a very real sense, I was stop lossed too), but he explained what it ws, what it meant for us & we got on with our lives. He deployed again & I did the same thing I had done on previous deployments, supported him & the rest of our troops, kept the house going, paid the bills, etc & waited anxiously for my phone to ring. Then I heard about the proposed bill for stop loss pay & thought, this is good, it will really help us out financially. Did we ask for extra money or have anything to do with this proposal? Certainly not, but neither are we dumb enough to turn it down when offered, especially with the state of the economy now. See, being stop lossed affected us in more ways than just being separated forover a year again. Being stop lossed meant, as it turned out, that my husband would retire right smack-dab in the middle of the heat of a recession, when there would literally be less jobs than people needing to find one & the ones available paid just a few dollars over minimum wage & added to that, my health really started getting bad, I had a triple bypass on Christmas day 2008, got pneumonia while in the hospital & then, just one short week after being released, I went into kidney failure. I have been living with Lupus for years now, was diagnosed in late 1994/early 1995. And yet, we consider ourselves 2 of the lucky ones because, as small as it is, he does get a retirement check each month. Yes, even though the retirement check & the pay from what job he could find is much less than what he was making while in the army & even though the docs have declare me disabled & we have no idea if I will be approved for disability benefits, we do realize that things could be worse. But, the promise of this stop loss pay has made it possible for us not to stress out as much about money, or the lack thereof. It has turned the light at the end of the tunnel back on (due to financial circumstances, the light at the end of our tunnel had been turned off)& we feel like we can breathe a bit again. I DO feel like my husband deserves this pay, I think of it as overtime pay. In my career as a surgical technologist, if I worked my 40 hours a week plus another 10, then I was paid double time for those extra 10 hours, I earned that extra money & I can’t help but feel that after nearly 22 years of service, several combat awards & not one complaint about having to do any of it, my husband has earned this extra money.
I am sorry this post is so long & thank you for allowing me to post this
I also want to thank all of those that have served our great country, this includes the families who hold down the fort during these long deployments, your sacrifices do not go unnoticed.

Dave

September 23rd, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Question for CJ. Were you stoplossed? Did the government stop you from getting out? People hate that soldiers are getting extra money for putting their lives on hold for a few months. I was stoplossed for 503 days past my 8 years. So you think I don’t deserve this money? You are the whiner. I consider this money my bailout in this tough economy. Don’t hate because you aren’t getting it. So shut your mouth and drive on.