Comments on: Divorce And The Military (Well-Researched and Updated) http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/ Updated information on Veteran Benefits, featured Military Bloggers, the You Served Podcast and various other news and information relevant to Veterans. Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:50:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Knee Deep in the Hooah! » Divorce, deployment and statistics http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-178129 Knee Deep in the Hooah! » Divorce, deployment and statistics Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:18:35 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-178129 [...] I had mentioned that I wanted to do a follow up “piggyback” write up to an earlier post by CJ on Divorce and the Military. [...] [...] I had mentioned that I wanted to do a follow up “piggyback” write up to an earlier post by CJ on Divorce and the Military. [...]

]]> By: Claire http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-168172 Claire Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:21:52 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-168172 CJ, My last position before I started working from home was at a social research institute. I was a research associate and I helped to develop tools and processes to measure outcomes in different programs. I have been around the block a time or two and have seen how statistics are used to skew a picture -- either for better or for worse. Numbers can only give us a single point of reference when we are dealing with human beings and the complexities of life. All alternative explanations for findings have to be fleshed out before any real conclusions can be drawn. Even then drawing hard and fast conclusions can often backfire. Last year I was absolutely insulted when a report came out that said deployment caused child abuse rates to increase. When I really looked at the numbers they were not conclusive nor was I impressed with the sample population they picked to study and use as a means to justify making such a bold statement. Of course when you dig deeper you see names advocating for the research who are vehement in their protest of the Iraq war. That right there makes their claims even more suspect in my book. With all of that said, I think that the alternative explanations or added dimensions in stresses and complexities you bring up are valid and need to be taken into consideration. Always remember... in the words of my literary hero Mark Twain: There are three kinds of lies, Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. (I have no proof that he actually said that, but I attribute it to him because it's so Twainish!) CJ, My last position before I started working from home was at a social research institute. I was a research associate and I helped to develop tools and processes to measure outcomes in different programs. I have been around the block a time or two and have seen how statistics are used to skew a picture — either for better or for worse. Numbers can only give us a single point of reference when we are dealing with human beings and the complexities of life. All alternative explanations for findings have to be fleshed out before any real conclusions can be drawn. Even then drawing hard and fast conclusions can often backfire.

Last year I was absolutely insulted when a report came out that said deployment caused child abuse rates to increase. When I really looked at the numbers they were not conclusive nor was I impressed with the sample population they picked to study and use as a means to justify making such a bold statement. Of course when you dig deeper you see names advocating for the research who are vehement in their protest of the Iraq war. That right there makes their claims even more suspect in my book.

With all of that said, I think that the alternative explanations or added dimensions in stresses and complexities you bring up are valid and need to be taken into consideration.

Always remember… in the words of my literary hero Mark Twain:

There are three kinds of lies,
Lies,
Damned Lies, and
Statistics.

(I have no proof that he actually said that, but I attribute it to him because it’s so Twainish!)

]]> By: CJ http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-168001 CJ Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:01:15 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-168001 AS, you are correct. In Monterrey, CA while attending the Defense Language Institute, we renamed it the Defense Love Institute because of all the privates and students getting married there. Then, they'd get to Texas for AIT and get a divorce or annulment. It is all too true that many Soldiers get married for the very reasons you mention above. This is another contributor to the divorce rate. One more thing you mention is the extra pay. Because of the pay disparity between married and single Soldiers, many Soldiers get married to start getting BAS and BAH. The pay system in the military has created the kinds of "classes" our new administration will create with his plans as well. (couldn't help the Obama dig) AS, you are correct. In Monterrey, CA while attending the Defense Language Institute, we renamed it the Defense Love Institute because of all the privates and students getting married there. Then, they’d get to Texas for AIT and get a divorce or annulment.

It is all too true that many Soldiers get married for the very reasons you mention above. This is another contributor to the divorce rate. One more thing you mention is the extra pay. Because of the pay disparity between married and single Soldiers, many Soldiers get married to start getting BAS and BAH. The pay system in the military has created the kinds of “classes” our new administration will create with his plans as well. (couldn’t help the Obama dig)

]]> By: Army Sergeant http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-167868 Army Sergeant Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:01:44 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-167868 Updated commentary: I definitely think there's a huge proble with the marriage rate in the Army to begin with. You've also left out the other factors that lend themselves to early marriages-such as people who get married to get out of the barracks. Or people who get married because they don't want to break up their relationship when one of the parties is PCSing, especially common in AIT. I once heard someone tell me that marriage is the Army equivalent of going steady. While I think it's obviously exaggerated, there's a certain truth to that, I think. There's much less thought given to marriages. Another factor that I think people haven't considered fully is the way that male-female relationships function with the bonds of going through hardship together. This is one I myself got hit by and know intimately. Sometimes people think their relationship is more intense than it is because they're deployed together, or TDY together, or in a hardship tour together. They think they've fallen head over heels in love, when what they have is a moderate attraction that's intensified by the danger or stress of the situation. Then once they get back or get out of that situation, they realize they have nothing in common with the other person. I fortunately didn't get married to that individual, but all too many do, thinking they will never lose that feeling. Updated commentary:

I definitely think there’s a huge proble with the marriage rate in the Army to begin with. You’ve also left out the other factors that lend themselves to early marriages-such as people who get married to get out of the barracks. Or people who get married because they don’t want to break up their relationship when one of the parties is PCSing, especially common in AIT.

I once heard someone tell me that marriage is the Army equivalent of going steady. While I think it’s obviously exaggerated, there’s a certain truth to that, I think. There’s much less thought given to marriages.

Another factor that I think people haven’t considered fully is the way that male-female relationships function with the bonds of going through hardship together. This is one I myself got hit by and know intimately. Sometimes people think their relationship is more intense than it is because they’re deployed together, or TDY together, or in a hardship tour together. They think they’ve fallen head over heels in love, when what they have is a moderate attraction that’s intensified by the danger or stress of the situation. Then once they get back or get out of that situation, they realize they have nothing in common with the other person. I fortunately didn’t get married to that individual, but all too many do, thinking they will never lose that feeling.

]]> By: CJ http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-167759 CJ Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:04:46 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-167759 AS and Anthony, thanks for the attention. I've deleted the conflicting statistics and instead took apart the report itself that the media has failed to bring attention. AS and Anthony, thanks for the attention. I’ve deleted the conflicting statistics and instead took apart the report itself that the media has failed to bring attention.

]]> By: Anthony http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-167692 Anthony Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:19:52 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-167692 I'm not taking up for the media here, but you are mixing your statistics. The 3.5% seems to be the number of divorces divided by the number of marriages in the Army. The 40% is the number of divorces divided by the number of weddings in a given year. To get an accurate comparison, you'd need the civilian divorces divided by the total number of husband-wife units. I’m not taking up for the media here, but you are mixing your statistics. The 3.5% seems to be the number of divorces divided by the number of marriages in the Army. The 40% is the number of divorces divided by the number of weddings in a given year. To get an accurate comparison, you’d need the civilian divorces divided by the total number of husband-wife units.

]]> By: Army Sergeant http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/2008/12/03/divorce-and-the-military/comment-page-1/#comment-167653 Army Sergeant Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:02:19 +0000 http://www.vamortgagecenter.com/blog/?p=828#comment-167653 CJ, you're comparing two different statistics. One is the number of divorces that year in the army, the other is the longterm marriage success rate of the Army. The marriage success rate in the Army is actually lower than the civilian populace, and if we add in multiple divorces, it gets pretty damn crazy. 3.7% may have gotten divorced that year, but that doesn't mean that only 3.7% of marriages failed overall. CJ, you’re comparing two different statistics. One is the number of divorces that year in the army, the other is the longterm marriage success rate of the Army.

The marriage success rate in the Army is actually lower than the civilian populace, and if we add in multiple divorces, it gets pretty damn crazy. 3.7% may have gotten divorced that year, but that doesn’t mean that only 3.7% of marriages failed overall.

]]>